G-body Rear End Swap

[Udrivecrap]

so, i got this ghetto hot rod and it had a 7.5" rear end with 2.71 gears. by the goodness of someone here on this forum (thanks again Rob) i was able to obtain a 8.5" rear end with 3.73 gears from a 84 Hurst Olds. as i was informed by Rob i would need to shorten the drive shaft about an inch, otherwise, it bolts right in. :grin:

after some quick research to confirm brudda Rob's meeeeasurement and other measurements, i found the only thing that needed to be modified was the driveshaft and it needed to be shortened exactly .99"... dang, he was right. :gapteeth:

i spent one day over the weekend cleaning and painting the dirty old butt (rear end)... and cleaning my garage and myself after.

today, this morning, i asked the driveshaft guy to take off 1" and change both u-joints while your at it, auuuryte. :beer3: $180 later i picked up the shaft this afternoon. during the day i swapped the rear end while i waited for the shaft.

now, i just got back from road tesing... mean performance. :burnout: i guess its time for nitrous.

here's the pic, i'll spare the ugly butt pics and just show how nice my butt is now :D enjoy!

http://www.hawaiitalks.net/photopost/data/2/medium/000_1486.jpg (http://www.hawaiitalks.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2015&size=big&cat=2)

i opted for the chrome cover and regular gear oil instead of cleaning a painting the old cover and using synthetic oil.... das how i do it on da ghetto hot rod cuz.

[xurusaibobx]

lol sweet....wheres the burn out pictures lol jk

[Udrivecrap]

oh... there will be some of those :grin:

[Hee_Haw]

Coolio!

Now.... how much RPMs you turning while groovin' down the highway? 3.73 seems still manageable without slurping too much fuel... I remember my '68 Barracuda with 3.21 geared 8 1/4 rear (Direct Connection) would buzz along around 2400 rpms while cruising the H-1.

Nice car.

[Outsider]

If yours is automatic, I'l guess somewhere between 2800-3000 rpm at 55. Unless you've got a lockup converter and/or OD.

What year/make of car is this? Engine/trans. also...just curious. :hihi:

[Udrivecrap]

its an 84 Caballero (same as El Camino) it has a 79' truck 350 block and the original TH250C trans. i have a TH350 and a 4-speed T-10 on the side and i'm not sure which one will go in yet.

for now, i wired the lock up converter to be controlled by a switch on the dash. my speedometer is way off now. looks like 3000 rpms isn't 55 mph. my final drive is 1:1 and my tire is 26" :D

there's more info in the garage, i put it in last night.

[Outsider]

its an 84 Caballero (same as El Camino) it has a 79' truck 350 block and the original TH250C trans. i have a TH350 and a 4-speed T-10 on the side and i'm not sure which one will go in yet.

for now, i wired the lock up converter to be controlled by a switch on the dash. my speedometer is way off now. looks like 3000 rpms isn't 55 mph. my final drive is 1:1 and my tire is 26" :D

there's more info in the garage, i put it in last night.

WHOA!!

Was this car green previously?
Is the motor dark blue?

[Rob]

I'm pretty sure this one was red before... and the moto is Udrives doing...

Glad it worked out for you dude!... (you got the redneck locker in too?)

[Outsider]

Oh ok...whew!!

Sounded like the exact set-up that I had. The green one that I had, had a 4-speed/12-bolt set-up in it. But I converted it back to auto and put the 4-speed in a 78 El Camino.

[idiosyncratic]

hey! you have a shiney butt! *no homo* :gapteeth: I was going to do that with my next gear oil change--get a shiney butt!

[ninja_skillz]

the 3.73 gears in my SS allowed me to do many, many rolling burnouts.

[Udrivecrap]

haha... nice.

yeah, like Rob said, it was maroon. probably when it was shiney and new it wasn't so ugly in that color. the interior is that color too. :ugh: one time i had a 81 firebird with what looks like the same original color. yikes.

and no Rob, i'm not going to weld the rear gears like how them crazy azz racers did in the old days. :D i'm going to get a spool....

oh, is that a redneck locker? :confuse2:

[Outsider]

Hmmm...I think I still have the rear sway bar for that rearend...

[Rob]

Dave... I just happen to have a rear swaybar that came outta same car if you want it...

[Udrivecrap]

oh.. auuurtye. can i drift with the sway bar? :naughty: i like the swaying action, like a boat :gapteeth: loose traction mo easy, wheeeeeeeee!

man, i tried the freeway a few times... holy crap! :wtf: i'm cruising at about 55mph and my tach is about 3500rpms with the lockup engaged (1:1).. the speedo says 75mph, i know that's wrong cuz people are blowing past me
:werd:

just to go with traffic in the 60mph zone, i'm hummin at 4000. :shine:

i guess i'll need bigger tires now for the freeway :bigthumbup: i'm thinking in the 28" size, these 26" tires are too small. :burnout: there's a DOT drag radial in th 275/60-15 that should be about right.

[ikeyballz]

haha, you need to go find yourself a broken LT1 camaro or vette and go steal some T56 from it. the 6th gear is amazing man.. @ 60mph, i can be at 1500rpm~ish. 70 is at 2K..my rear end = 3.32? or so? supposedly with 4.10;s my car can cruise pretty good on the freeway with no probs whatsoevar.

LT1 camaros are going pretty cheap...had one for like 2K, entire car.. with M6.. i wanted to get that but no $, no space :beatup:

[Outsider]

oh.. auuurtye. can i drift with the sway bar? :naughty: i like the swaying action, like a boat :gapteeth: loose traction mo easy, wheeeeeeeee!

man, i tried the freeway a few times... holy crap! :wtf: i'm cruising at about 55mph and my tach is about 3500rpms with the lockup engaged (1:1).. the speedo says 75mph, i know that's wrong cuz people are blowing past me
:werd:

just to go with traffic in the 60mph zone, i'm hummin at 4000. :shine:

i guess i'll need bigger tires now for the freeway :bigthumbup: i'm thinking in the 28" size, these 26" tires are too small. :burnout: there's a DOT drag radial in th 275/60-15 that should be about right.

The truck will handle a little better and won't lean as much in the turns.
But the suspension on those arent for burning corners anyway(it's basically the Malibu station wagon).
Try calculating your rpm/speed here:
http://www.pro-system.com/calc.html

[Udrivecrap]

hey... your calculator and my calculator both say i should be at 72mph with 3500rpms with 3.73 gears and a 26" tire.

no way in hell am i doing 72mph. that's about what my speedo says when i'm at 3500 rpms. somethings wrong, i'm confused.

[Outsider]

If you have access to a hand-held digital tach (looks like a calculator) or something similar, you could try comparing readings to the tach you have now(while parked).

Yeah when I tried calculating your 26 in tire and 3.73 gear, the numbers looked right...

But I know what you're talking about. Could be because there is some slippage in the trans and converter. And also if you measure the tire side-to-side and it's 26 in., most likely from the ground to the center of the rim won't be 13 in. Could be some inaccuracies in the speedo and the tach....and all of this combined would make things look funny-kine.

Did I read earlier that you were going to convert to standard? If you are then your tire/gear set-up you have now should be ideal.

[Rob]

Elcamino: 116" WB

Malibu coupe, sedan: 108" WB
(Wagon is same IIRC)

They can be made to handle well considering their original intended use.

Dave, I got the Silver SS I'll be dismembering this week.

26.61" is the actual diameter. and RPM is close actually...

[Udrivecrap]

ooooooo... an SS? heh.. more parts! :grin:

here you go ikeyballz, i had an LT1 from a camaro, that i gave away and now it sits in a 1st gen RX7.

http://www.hawaiitalks.net/photopost/data/500/thumbs/000_1361.jpg (http://www.hawaiitalks.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1843)

in regards to the speed calculator. while my converter is locked up i'm supposed to have 1:1... i'm thinking 3rd gear in my auto trans is not 1:1 :wtf:

i have a T-10 4spd. i found out the 4th gear is 1:1. and if my auto trans 3rd gear is 1:1 then changing to this 4spd will make no difference on the highway.

one of the main reasons i don't want a manual is because i have a hard time drinking coffee when i have to shift.

[Outsider]

Elcamino: 116" WB

Malibu coupe, sedan: 108" WB
(Wagon is same IIRC)

They can be made to handle well considering their original intended use.

Dave, I got the Silver SS I'll be dismembering this week.

26.61" is the actual diameter. and RPM is close actually...

If you look behind the seat in the ElCamino, there's a "pocket" that goes under the truck bed. In the truck bed there's a panel bolted down. If you remove that panel, that's where the back seat would go, in the station wagon.

If I'm not mistaken, the coupe and 4-door are the same wheelbase...and the wagon/elcamino share the same platform.

I know for sure the older models (60's-70's) are that way^^^.

[Udrivecrap]

haha... Rob told me a story about someone he knew who tried to drill drain holes over the pocket! doh! :wtf:

yeah, there's a huge pocket behind there. you could put two spare tires in there, or just two nitrous bottles. mine doesn't appear to have the bolted down panel in the bed, but i do see what your saying about the floor (pan) its a car/truck.

[Outsider]

Elcamino: 116" WB

Malibu coupe, sedan: 108" WB
(Wagon is same IIRC)

They can be made to handle well considering their original intended use.

Dave, I got the Silver SS I'll be dismembering this week.

26.61" is the actual diameter. and RPM is close actually...

I'll have to go with you on that one. I had a 78 Malibu wagon (as well as the 78 ElCamino, and an 84 Caballero) but I had all three vehicles at different times...and never measured the wheelbase. I remember the wagon being the smoothest riding car I've EVER had, even with the new H.D. springs in the back (it lifted the car up about 1.5 inches)....fall-asleep-at-the-wheel smooth riding. :ohnoes:

[Rob]

haha... Rob told me a story about someone he knew who tried to drill drain holes over the pocket! doh! :wtf:

yeah, there's a huge pocket behind there. you could put two spare tires in there, or just two nitrous bottles. mine doesn't appear to have the bolted down panel in the bed, but i do see what your saying about the floor (pan) its a car/truck.

I know 64-67 and 68-72 had the bolt-down panel.

Not 100% about 73-77... but 78-87 was welded in place

[Udrivecrap]

sounds good to me... two small people can hide in there going to the track :icon_mrpurple:

with this rear end :burnout: the water temp starts to get kinda hot when i'm cruisin with traffic. as you know, my speedo is now off and i question my rpm reading (haven't hooked the other tach up yet).. nevertheless, it starts to get hot. my guage is the elcheapo goes from 195..I....220 i'm guessing i start to go over 200 and towards 220.

i think i need a heavy duty radiator... and some ear plugs :beatup:

[Rob]

Track?... where?

[Udrivecrap]

the one at parcel 9.... you know, the one the State of Hawaii is well aware of but they don't like to say anything about it.... that one. the one the NAVY said to DHHL to do nothing about until they decide if there is a carrier support group there or not. the one that the land should have never gone to DHHL if they didn't want to finalize a land swap deal with the developers, aka old park owners.

ring a bell? :D

[Udrivecrap]

i have a temporary track near my house if you wanna try it for free...

[Rob]

the one at parcel 9.... you know, the one the State of Hawaii is well aware of but they don't like to say anything about it.... that one. the one the NAVY said to DHHL to do nothing about until they decide if there is a carrier support group there or not. the one that the land should have never gone to DHHL if they didn't want to finalize a land swap deal with the developers, aka old park owners.

ring a bell? :D

I refuse to answer that on the grounds it may incriminate me.

[Rob]

i have a temporary track near my house if you wanna try it for free...

Lemme put the 355 in the MCSS

[Udrivecrap]

I refuse to answer that on the grounds it may incriminate me.

oh yeah?... well, you suck.

Lemme put the 355 in the MCSS

oooooh, can i help? :beatup: i'm all about safety and durability

[Outsider]

sounds good to me... two small people can hide in there going to the track :icon_mrpurple:

with this rear end :burnout: the water temp starts to get kinda hot when i'm cruisin with traffic. as you know, my speedo is now off and i question my rpm reading (haven't hooked the other tach up yet).. nevertheless, it starts to get hot. my guage is the elcheapo goes from 195..I....220 i'm guessing i start to go over 200 and towards 220.

i think i need a heavy duty radiator... and some ear plugs :beatup:

Check to see if you have the 8-inch pulley on the crankshaft (it's a LOT bigger than the two pulleys closer to the balancer). There were a few different size water pump pulleys available that you could use...the smaller the better(usually the late-70's thru mid-80's had the smallest water pump pulleys). I've found out that the faster you turn that water pump...whether on the freeway or in traffic...the cooler the engine will run (no thermostat). If you combine that with at least a 4-core radiator, you should be good(either new or re-cored, so long as the tanks are wide enough for a recore). It also helps if the cylinders weren't bored out. I noticed the stock-bore engines that I ran were running at least 10-15 degrees cooler, freeway or traffic, than the bored out ones. I can't believe I still remeber this stuff because I haven't owned a V8 since 2001....but I guess I've had WAAAY too many before that. :burnoutgif:

[Udrivecrap]

oh yeah, the pulley size, i'll check. i had different ones and without looking i don't know which ones i put on :beatup:...

and if i'm going to be doing the highway driving from the east to the west sides alot... i think i'll need a 4 row for sure. i was looking at a 2100 cfm electric fan. i tried a 1200 cfm fan and it didn't cool as well as the stock clutch fan, with or without a shroud. it just wasn't enough air flow

[Outsider]

You're right. I tried electric fans too...couldn't draw air like the clutch fans. Do you still have the a/c condenser in place? Don't think it'll make much of a difference, but you can try removing it (if your a/c doesn't work). Is your heater still hooked up and working? If so, running the heater in traffic should help (but it'll be torture on you).

[Udrivecrap]

nopes, the a/c system has been removed along with the blower assembly/heater core. here's a before and after. the original engine (305) and the green truck motor on its way in (350).. the heads on the green motor were the 350/400 heads with a 76cc chamber. i decided to up the compression ghetto style by using the small chamber (58cc) 305 heads. tons of torque, but as i posted somewhere already, it gives up around 5500rpm.

http://www.hawaiitalks.net/photopost/data/2/thumbs/000_0903.jpg (http://www.hawaiitalks.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=769)http://www.hawaiitalks.net/photopost/data/500/thumbs/000_0948.jpg (http://www.hawaiitalks.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=922)http://www.hawaiitalks.net/photopost/data/500/thumbs/000_1490.jpg (http://www.hawaiitalks.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2018)

the engine bay is dirty, its needs to be cleaned and painted. i'm going with gloss black in the bay. at this point, i'm just going to add nitrous to see what kind of neck snapping acceleration comes out of it. prolly next month sometime.

[Rob]

Whats the timing set at?...

It shouldnt need a 4 core... how old is the rad in it now... is it 2 or 3 core?

[Udrivecrap]

uhh... i think its a 3 core about 5 years old. unless that's the one from the malibu and its a 3 core over 10 years old. i painted it so it looks like newer used, ghetto action.

the timing is set as per my ear... i was testing it today and after cruising at hwy speeds then stopping (with the temp over 200 and below 220) i hammered it and i heard some noise, i'm sure the timing is a little too advanced which would explain the higher temp i'm seeing. i hammered it a few more times getting home at 220 degrees :5eek:

i guess with the old 2.71 gears the cruise rpm was much lower (about 1,000 rpms) and the temp was ALWAYS cooler around 190 or so. that's when i set the timing last. so then when i'd hammer it, it wasn't hot enough to detonate (to make noise) with what i got the timing advanced at. now with it running a little hotter because of the higher rpms, looks like i need to back down a few degrees.

all by ear :D

[Rob]

Damnned ghetto hotrods.... (I should talk... the MCSS 305 is tuned the same way)

[Udrivecrap]

hahaha... das how we do it in the ghetto :brush:

i'm about ready to swap a mean motor in a crx... all street race kine.

GHETTTTTTTTTOOO! :burnout:

[Udrivecrap]

ok... i played with the timing, added a 160 degree thermostat, and still the car would reach up to 220 after going from the freeway then up the makakilo hill. trans isn't slipping, radiator has 50/50 anti-freeze, fan is operating normally... remember, this wasn't a problem until i changed the rear gears.

after finding out i was low on anti-freeze and discussing my problem with Chad and Rob one day (the day i added the thermostat).. i decided to move my temp sensor from the head to the intake manifold... and guess what? :D

so far, i can cruise the freeway at 3500-4000 rpms and then blast up the hill and it barely passes 200 degrees. :wtf:

so, i'm guessing that the iron heads with the small chamber is creating alot of heat at that cruise rpm of 3500-4000 due to the increased compression ratio. now, iron heads retain this heat so it would make sense that i'm getting a "false" reading of the water temp so close to the combustion chamber... i'm just measuring the radiating heat into the water surrounding the cylinder. back on top, its cooler.

i also confirmed my suspicion with a digital meter, the radiator was 193 degrees while the sensor in the head was showing 220.

one more test run on H1 and then i'll go up H3 for the real test :burnout:

[Rob]

We go race you slowpoke!

[Udrivecrap]

shoot... anytime, bro.

i have a question for you, Rob, as i am going to buy new bushings today. what was the make and model of the car that had the rear end?

i can't seem to find 8.5" on what i thought it was... thanks, shopping for that rear diff or spool.

[Udrivecrap]

We go race you slowpoke!
you mean on Maui? i read on islandracer that friday t&t might be out? there was 133 cars over there, that's 3 runs in 5 hours. ho dang, fall asleep in the line kine.