View Full Version : recon complaints
figures, i called you on your sh*t and you backed off so you could seem like the good guy. fair enough. Remember you took first cheap shot here thinking it would go unnoticed by me and you would seem so cool for insulting FH.
Nothing moves forward without change, and change comes from the people. I started asking all these questions hoping for a good reason to come out of it. "Cause the higher ups say so" is not a good enough reason for me. Again, you take it upon yourself to serve as the recon guru, and you take everything we assholes say personally because your husband works there. Oh well, that's a personal choice of yours, nothing I can control.
How many times (when I first started mixing concerts) do you think people told me a show sounded like sh*t? That was my fault and you know what? I can sit there and make excuses all day long about equipment or the band or whatever the way you do in defense of the recon office. None of that matters, fact is there was a better way for me to do it and I kept trying different things until it all worked. I'm sure the collective brainpower of that office can come up with something more efficient than the current system, and not only for recon, for all the things they do.
I got no beef left with the recon office, nothing worth talking about on the net anyway. I played the game and I got my ridiculous little sticker. That doesn't change the fact that there is a better way to deal with altered vehicles. That is my point and yes I'm sticking with it. I'll be working with an attorney (legal work is free for me) on a new bill to be intro'd next session (hopefully, unless i end up out on tour again) that would aid in a reform of the policies regarding recon and the state safety inspection.
Also look out some new bills regarding auto insurance are up and coming and they make so much more sense than the current system. Hawaii is in for some changes.
1. what makes you think that governmental services hiring practices are the same as private businesses, John? they can't just think "oh we need more help here" and hire people...there are procedures. there's testing, there's interviews, and as usual, with any bureaucracy it takes aaages.
2. your experience with YOUR job is, again, in a private business. now you may be seem to be allowed much more autonomy with your OWN decisions to run things...understandable, as it is a private business. in governmental departments, there is a chain of command. you start doing things your own way when this chain of command is in place, expect to get into a lot of trouble. ask Rob about the chain of command, he works in a C&C facility and he would be much better to shed light onto you confusion as to why an office can't just tweak things just to suit YOUR wishes.
it is how it is.
now if you are THAT confused that you can't understand that that is how certain departments are run (inefficient or not) within government, then yes, i am sorry, i can't answer to your satisfaction.
feel free to introduce bills and go help Drew. everyone complains but no one does nothing. like i said, no one would probably be MORE happy than the inspectors themselves. they need more time to do their other duties and this recon crap is screwing them up more than you think.:rally_drive:
...also, let's NOT forget...IIRC, this whole b i tchfest you started was in part, started because you were under the mistaken assumption that recon was all they do. you yourself even admitted that you did not know that.
again, it BLOWS my mind that there are that many presumptuous people that will go off at the mouth about another's job when they clearly have no clue.
Interesting...
Much like complaints I get for my guys not making "effective use of their work time"...
Keep in mind we (City, state and federal employees) are Civil Service, and are governed as such by the CS rules and directives, along with agreements combined in collective bargaining agreements.
A Civil Service Employee has a Position Description, which covers how much of his/her day a certain percentage of work should be done.
The work crew you see sitting on the side of the road taking a break in those 15 seconds you see as you drive by and make a complaint, are probably on a legitimate break as allowed by contract.
People classify an entire group of people based on the actions of a couple... and thats a damnned shame. It is usually a result of ASSUMPTION and not based on facts. People within the organization are better suited to make a legitimate complaint because they know what the persons job should be.
As I posted in the other thread... what are you doing to ry and resolve the alleged problems other than ***** about it on a forum? You want recon rough?... lets revert back to the 80's when its intent was to hamper use of stolen parts... affadavits and reciepts for EVERYTHING...
The system is not perfect... and remember... RECON/PMVI/AV is a city agency governed by STATE DOT rules.
Again: Identify an alleged problem, validate that there is actually a problem and make reasonable suggestions to fix the "problems"
8overgixxer
02-09-2008, 11:33 AM
I haven't been talking about "just hiring more people" in quite some time. I'm talking about the ones in the office working with the superiors to make it better. I understand it takes a long time to hire a new person, but internally changing policy is only a matter of the employees getting together, finding a better way to do things, intro'ing the idea to the boss and implementing it. It's not that hard. If there are 4 people in an office and 1 boss, all 4 employees go to the boss and say "this is how we should do things" he'll listen to some degree. I understand chain of command. I've been in situations where I was a victim of it, and I learned how to change it.
Even underlings can make a difference if they have a valid concern and solution.
It's not about "my wishes," it's about making for a better experience for the people of honolulu who meet the criteria for this "special" inspection. It's never been about "me" so much as it's been about how stupid the policies in place are.
3. yes I was ignorant to the fact that it is not all they do. But since i learned that, I have been making a point to drive by there at least 3 times a week while I'm out taking care of my personal sh*t and I've not once seen it any busier than it was when i got my inspection. I see one car in there at a time, maybe. Maybe I'm catching them at "slow" times, but many times there is nothing going on at all. If there day is as rigorous and busy as you always say it is, I would expect to see taxi's being inspected or other forms of business being performed, but it always just looks like an empty lot.
I was the only car in there and when I walked in the phones were ringing and people were having personal conversations that did not relate to their jobs. The inspector looked like he just woke up a from a nap and he was surprised to see me. No one looked out the window and checked my plates as you say they do, cause when i opened the door everyone was surprised to see someone walk in. They had that deer in the headlights look, except the women having the conversation about what japanese ancestors had ate. they kept talking and never skipped a beat, or answered a phone.
You can defend them all you want lois, I know you are personally attached to it and apparently you feel a moral obligation to do so. I think if you weren't married to someone who worked there, then your feelings would be different and you would see the problems and have more to say other than "that's the way it is."
Ok I'm done now, don't take any more cheap shots at me, cause then i have to come here to this hell hole again where everyone thinks their sh*t don't stink. I've never been a fan of this place 'cause you people are no better than the people at FH, in fact a lot of you are the same people! And yet you act all high and mighty like it's an honor to be accepted and post here while the people of FH are referred to as idiots and dumb asses. there is no place for that and the sooner HT can move beyond being a refugee camp for former FH'ers the better off it will be.
8overgixxer
02-09-2008, 11:43 AM
I
The system is not perfect... and remember... RECON/PMVI/AV is a city agency governed by STATE DOT rules.
Again: Identify an alleged problem, validate that there is actually a problem and make reasonable suggestions to fix the "problems"
Like I said, i'm working on it. I've identified many problems in past posts. Lois just likes to take what I state as a concern and answer it with "that's the way it is."
I understand how unions work and how the contracts are written. I am a member of a union myself for certain events throughout the year. But in our union we can approach our superiors (I am sometimes a steward on site) on our own or company time to discuss improvements to the system. They encourage it because they genuinely give a sh*t about the people we serve and making things operate smoother.
I'm not here to ***** on a forum. I'm at FH to take input from other individuals as to how it can change so I can incorporate it with my attorney. Only reason i'm here on HT is because lois took a cheap shot in that other thread and i showed up to defend my intelligence since i'm not a "dumb ass of FH." If she would stop with the defensive position and contribute to how it can change, we may be able to get somewhere. but it has always been her way to be defensive on this subject rather than offer up anything that could contribute to a solution.
You say youre done and your last paragraph is a cheap shot at the members here?
Thats a pretty chicken shit approach to life at its finest.
As a civil service employee, I deal with subordinates and the public regularly. My crew sometimes wants to do things in what would be an unorthatdox manner to accomplish a task in a shorter time span (effective use of time) but is willing to compromise safety directives to do it.
Now... here's the dillemma: If I let my crew shortcut a job and someone gets hurt (or worse) as a result, who is responsible? I am as their supervisor. Do you let them take the shortcut knowing its your ass on the line, or do you continue to stress safety in the workplace above all else?
I cant say much for your experience at recon... I know in the old days when there were no appointments, there was ALWAYS a line. Now with appointments at predetermined intervals you will see maybe one or two cars at a time for obvious reasons... right?
As for "personal conversations", the time you were there will dictate whether people were on break, lunch, etc. You seem to think from the time an employee walks through the door youre on company time... not so in the world of civil service... want to try to reform civil service rules as well?
Oh... yeah... youre right... I post at FH.... some funny shit there sometimes... mostly in track talk... or the motorcycle section... you dont see me anywhere else ther except adult from timt to time... Do I think my shit dont stink? I dont think so... but members of the public that call to complain about the smell from a treatment plant seem to think that their shit dont stink!
Like I said, i'm working on it. I've identified many problems in past posts. Lois just likes to take what I state as a concern and answer it with "that's the way it is."
I understand how unions work and how the contracts are written. I am a member of a union myself for certain events throughout the year. But in our union we can approach our superiors (I am sometimes a steward on site) on our own or company time to discuss improvements to the system. They encourage it because they genuinely give a sh*t about the people we serve and making things operate smoother.
I'm not here to ***** on a forum. I'm at FH to take input from other individuals as to how it can change so I can incorporate it with my attorney. Only reason i'm here on HT is because lois took a cheap shot in that other thread and i showed up to defend my intelligence since i'm not a "dumb ass of FH." If she would stop with the defensive position and contribute to how it can change, we may be able to get somewhere. but it has always been her way to be defensive on this subject rather than offer up anything that could contribute to a solution.
Not all unions operate the same way.. so NEVER say you know how unions work...
They do support their rank and file, but not all for the employees.
You seem to have a very one-sided view, so I suggest you take some time to expand your views to see why others view things as they do.
The "cheap shot" you refer to... youre not the first to criticize, condemn and complain about how recon was/is operated. My point is that you need to know the rules governing a certain entity before you can enact change in that entity.
I'll agree that recon can use come change... but the people arent the problem... the policies are. (like any other gov't agency)
ArchangelX
02-09-2008, 12:16 PM
I'm not here to ***** on a forum. I'm at FH to take input from other individuals as to how it can change so I can incorporate it with my attorney. Only reason i'm here on HT is because lois took a cheap shot in that other thread and i showed up to defend my intelligence since i'm not a "dumb ass of FH." If she would stop with the defensive position and contribute to how it can change, we may be able to get somewhere. but it has always been her way to be defensive on this subject rather than offer up anything that could contribute to a solution.
Why not gather some information from Hawaii Talks users as well? HT isn't about people taking cheap shots at anyone...and you might be surprised at the maturity level of our members, for the most part. And you might be surprised at how willing alot of us are to help you out in your ideas.
Hell, if you want, I can create a survey people can take for recon...you come up with the questions and answers, and I'll make it for you...it'll look like this after you're done:
http://www.hawaiitalks.net/survey.php?&do=results&sid=28
You're not the first person that has considered the idea of doing this, in fact, we have a member here named abusive that has done the same thing, and even gotten the bills into session. If you haven't talked to him yet, maybe you should. I already expressed support for this idea a long time ago...but I just didn't have the time due to the track business.
I admin and mod this place with a pretty stern hand for the most part...if you have a problem with someone then please let me know...both of you...and we'll take care of it. One way or the other.
Personally, I do agree with the sentiment that the policy is what needs to change. The business of it all is just like anything else though...there's some companies that have "slow" days...it just comes with the territory. That doesn't make it right, but in Hawaii, it seems there's alot of that going around. Aloha Friday ring a bell?
Outsider
02-09-2008, 12:44 PM
Wow!! Now THIS has got to be my most FAVORITE thread of ALL TIME!! :hihi: :nana2mj1rq2:
Ok I'm done now, don't take any more cheap shots at me, cause then i have to come here to this hell hole again where everyone thinks their sh*t don't stink. I've never been a fan of this place 'cause you people are no better than the people at FH, in fact a lot of you are the same people! And yet you act all high and mighty like it's an honor to be accepted and post here while the people of FH are referred to as idiots and dumb asses. there is no place for that and the sooner HT can move beyond being a refugee camp for former FH'ers the better off it will be.
dude--YOU started the whole mess when you posted that "6 weeks" thread making totally disparaging comments without having one iota of a clue. and then IIRC YOU ASKED where i was. then when i come along and blast you for making rude comments you act all who whoa whoa like i'm the meanie?
c'mon now, you know what you get when you ask for me.
how come you can post about how stupid and lazy they are and when you get schooled on how things really run in that office you cry foul?
that's booshet John.
No one looked out the window and checked my plates as you say they do, cause when i opened the door everyone was surprised to see someone walk in. They had that deer in the headlights look, except the women having the conversation about what japanese ancestors had ate. they kept talking and never skipped a beat, or answered a phone.
WOW! talking about "sh it not stinking"?
you mean to tell me you go to work and don't engage in conversation with your co-workers? i know I DO. i didn't know talking to co-workers was against the law.
also, there you go again with not listening to what i told you, and only hearing what you want to hear.
i've been in there when my husband has a lunch hour (oh yes! they get THOSE too, John...imagine THAT, a lunch hour! do you want them to be robbed of THAT too? :rolleyes: ) and yes, i have been there when i see them looking through the blinds to "silently" check them in.
it's not just the fact that my husband works there (and ironically he was the one who inspected your vehicle)...i've worked there myself and conducted recon inspections back in the day when the abandoned vehicle side inspectors had been incorporated in a rotational basis. (and that's another story in and of itself).
8overgixxer
02-10-2008, 02:43 AM
ok it's late and I'm tired, gonna make this short.
1) I stress safety in my workplace and no I would not allow safety to be compromised. That being said, I'm open minded to doing things differently so long as it is still safe. There is always a better way to do things. In the mainland and here I've been responsible for flying multiple tons from building supports in order to create a show. I know a thing or two about safety and liability. I'm not asking anyone to compromise safety. I'm asking for the office to be run better so that it serves the people in an efficient way, i.e. not waiting weeks to get an appointment for a 2 minute inspection.
2) the whole thing started long before in another thread called we need a change where Lois chimed in and it has all escalated from there. She always wants to be the supreme being regarding recon situations, so I was expecting her to chime in. Then she went on about her friends turning tail on her... Not sure where that came from as I don't consider and online discussions to warrant the term friendship. She then claimed to have offered me help in the matter, but instead did not respond to my PM's even before this got ugly.
3) regarding my comment about sh*t not stinking, I can't tell you how many posts I've read here where people talk about how awful the other forum is as though the members of FH are a bunch of trolls living under a bridge. It may have seemed like a cheap shot, but think of it as more of an editorial. I don't hang out at FH much, and very seldom do I find myself here. I'm sure there are a bunch of great people here, but the FH/HT member camping is still very prevalent.
4) regarding a comment about being one sided. I'm strong willed, not one sided. I'm always willing to listen to another side of a story provided it's logical. Hence my ability to listen to the people who work for me and take their opinions into consideration for the better of the department and production.
5) about breaks and all that "union rules" thing. We could go on and on here, but I'll just say this. I work with bylaws and working conditions all the time. In 99% of the situations a break is taken away from one's work area so as to separate oneself from work during the break. This serves a dual purpose, 1 you get to walk away and not be distracted, 2 customers and clients don't witness people standing around doing nothing. It's a win win situation. If you don't want people to think you are being "lazy" when you are on your break, take it away from your desk and the eyes of the public. Not sure where you all got the idea I was a union buster, but you are wrong. What is with all the sarcasm regarding lunch breaks? i have never taken an issue with that in the past and I'm not asking them to "give up" anything. this all seems rather out of left field. I'm guessing it's just emotions exploding and you blwoing off steam since I unknowingly insulted your husband.
I'm sure I'm fighting a losing battle since so many of you have made your minds up about me, and it would be easy for many of you to gang up on me so that I may look like the only asshole around. I don't have time in my life for that sort of thing, so we leave it at this. Opinions are still like assholes, we all got them and they all stink. Can't be helped. I truly hope for a change that would benefit both the employees and patrons of that office, but I don't foresee it happening in the near future and that is a shame. We'll see what happens with future law making sessions, but even that will take a while. Hopefully something can be put together. Lets do the old agree to disagree thing and let this whole thing die until the bill starts to form a little more. When the time is right I may take michael up on his offer of creating a poll about what needs to change from the eyes of the rest of you.
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 03:17 AM
....You seem to have a very one-sided view, so I suggest you take some time to expand your views to see why others view things as they do.
The "cheap shot" you refer to... youre not the first to criticize, condemn and complain about how recon was/is operated.....
Sorry Rob but as an objective viewer in this thread I think that the same could be said for John's claim of a cheap shot. From what I'm gathering John and Lois may have had some form of discussion dispute on FH and around about the same time frame perhaps to which John took some form of offense by Lois's comment.
As for just having an open mind in general I think everyone could use a little of that though. And I mean EVERYONE!
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 03:40 AM
Ok so I finally read up on what all this comotion is about.
In John's defense, I think he has every right to be literally pissed at the system. Props to him for going the distance in getting inspected to be street legal.
However from what I see one of John's main argumentive points is the 6 week waiting period, on top of that they wouldn't issue any letter stating of the inspection appointment thus keeping John's car in a "Not Legal" status. Strike 1 for John.
***Does anyone see a problem with this here???***
I'm assuming the employee's sitting down carrying on a personal converstaion without realizing that there was a customer in the office was pouring salt on the wound. Feeling ignored or forgotten about was probably strike 2 for John. In all honesty if there is appointments for the day I' would assume as well that the ones running the appointment would be made somewhat aware that there would have been an appointment that day. If not atleast put the personal converstaion on pause while the inspection went underway in a much more haste manner than the story which John depicted. Making customers wait is grounds for bad service and could possibly wind up as a complaint to those in a higher chain.
Last but not least would have been the inspection length of time to which John experienced. As he claimed a whole 2 minutes? I would assume this to be strike 3 with John.
Keeping an open mind to this situation I feel that John expressed his displeasure with his experience and did so with a very valid reason too. He later realized that there were other duties to which the employees carry out as well but again his reason and what he witnessed, John took that aspect with a grain of salt given the situation to which he observed who wouldn't right? In John's defense and view I think he feels like he struck out even though he got a recon sticker.
Sorry Brian... gonna have to disagree with you.
1) You own a vehicle.
2) You as the owner/operator are responsible for assuring compliance with the law.
3) You want to modify the vehicle, perform the mods and the other required items as close to the inspection date as possible. Not convenient? Take the chance and drive it like that or park it and drive something else.
Now, I dont know about you, but for as long as I have been driving modded vehicles I've had recon on just about all of them (At least those that required it)... Never had a problem, unless I failed to have everything in place.
I took the time to understand the law, and if there were items in question, the validate the answers to my satisfaction. I called... quite a few times actually (back in the day) for information. I showed good faith in wanting to assure my vehicles were legal, and that I didnt have to come back a second time... (I had to ONCE... )
Was I upset I had to come back? sure... but honestly, it wasnt a question I asked, and IIRC I didnt mention the mod that required the return trip... effectively putting the burden on me.
John could have taken the same approach... but it doesnt seem that way.
Now John, this isnt a cheap shot but all of your responses are "I know a thing or two"... about something. You said : I work with bylaws and working conditions all the time. In 99% of the situations a break is taken away from one's work area so as to separate oneself from work during the break.
In our department we are not afforded that luxury of breaks away from the workstation. I cant speak 100% for MVC but considering they do NOT have a dedicated break area I would take a chance and say that they do not have that luxury either. (They work out of portables)
We take our breaks in accordance with the collective bargaining agreement times, with proper clean-up time allowed. My operations staff works straight through, eating lunch "on the run" but if the shit hits the fan during break or lunch, lunch gets put aside, problem addressed then lunch/break resumes.
In most "customer service" oriented departments they are allowed breaks away from the workstation (sattelite city hall, drivers license, etc). Downside of this I see people complaining when they go on a legitimate break!
Here's what I've learned working for the city in almost 20 years:
The general public is VERY misinformed as to what public employees jobs are and will complain without just cause 99% of the time.
A vast majority of complaints are without warrant. (usually just rants) These tie up the services for legitimate concerns regarding city processes.
People from private sector always thing they can run it better... until they see all the fixtures in place, then realize its not as easy as it looks. Lots of obstacles and requirements not always obvious from the surface.
I'm not one to form opinions based on internet conversations, and I've never met you personally. Our only interaction has been on the motorcycle forum on FH.
Brian...
Strike 1... No... I addressed this above
Strike 2... If John saw 5-10 minutes of the staffs entire day, you'd make judgement of how the office is run based on that? No... not at all... but I would find out more about the day to day operation before I make a complaint.
Strike 3... The inspection process can be quick if everything is in order. Most failures are on the very obvious. It actually took me longer to do the paperwork than the actual inspection. Then you wait while the permit to operate is completed by the office and all is issued. The entire process took me just under 1/2 hour.
I'm always willing to listen to another side of a story provided it's logical. Hence my ability to listen to the people who work for me and take their opinions into consideration for the better of the department and production.
my husband knows about all these threads.
and you know one thing he remembered?
he told me "hey i remember doing that guy's inspection...wasn't any trouble at all. he didn't complain one bit. pretty funny how he has all these complaints from behind the keyboard."
so you see, John...you complained. you complained why don't these workers go to their higher-ups with these complaints.
my husband is a great guy...but i know one thing he ain't. he ain't a mind reader.
pretty hard for them to go to their higher-ups with your complaints if you don't say so. you say that is one of the "solutions"...so why didn't YOU do it?
i don't need to offer solutions because i don't need recon, i will never need recon and i don't give a fuk about recon. in fact i don't care if you guys ACTUALLY one day DO SOMETHING instead of merely whining about it. i would be HAPPY if it was gone.
then my time on these boards would be a lot more pleasant than reading whiny complaints from people. i get enough of that at work.:freakout:
People from private sector always thing they can run it better... until they see all the fixtures in place, then realize its not as easy as it looks. Lots of obstacles and requirements not always obvious from the surface.
I'm not one to form opinions based on internet conversations, and I've never met you personally. Our only interaction has been on the motorcycle forum on FH.
Strike 2... If John saw 5-10 minutes of the staffs entire day, you'd make judgement of how the office is run based on that? No... not at all... but I would find out more about the day to day operation before I make a complaint.
bolded: EXACTLY...people think this and that on ten minutes. good job. that's my whole issue.
John forgets but i met him once at Kakaako. i THINK it was the Will g2g from Katrina or something. you may not consider me a friend, that's fine. but i have interacted with you enough on the board to have afforded you some sort respect until you impugned my husband and the office I USED TO WORK FOR. i thought i could expect a little in return but i was sorely mistaken.
at any rate i didn't check my PMs, i STILL haven't. that is a bad habit of mine and i apologize for that. i am blocked from numerous places at work (which is MOST of the time i check these boards and i can only iPhone--you know how that is John) and so a lot of the time i just don't bother.
Gilbert often has questions and on occasion has just posted a thread where he KNOWS i will see it.
ArchangelX
02-10-2008, 10:16 AM
3) regarding my comment about sh*t not stinking, I can't tell you how many posts I've read here where people talk about how awful the other forum is as though the members of FH are a bunch of trolls living under a bridge. It may have seemed like a cheap shot, but think of it as more of an editorial. I don't hang out at FH much, and very seldom do I find myself here. I'm sure there are a bunch of great people here, but the FH/HT member camping is still very prevalent.
I'm sure I'm fighting a losing battle since so many of you have made your minds up about me, and it would be easy for many of you to gang up on me so that I may look like the only asshole around. I don't have time in my life for that sort of thing, so we leave it at this. Opinions are still like assholes, we all got them and they all stink. Can't be helped. I truly hope for a change that would benefit both the employees and patrons of that office, but I don't foresee it happening in the near future and that is a shame. We'll see what happens with future law making sessions, but even that will take a while. Hopefully something can be put together. Lets do the old agree to disagree thing and let this whole thing die until the bill starts to form a little more. When the time is right I may take michael up on his offer of creating a poll about what needs to change from the eyes of the rest of you.
You are definetly correct in that there's alot of anti-FH sentiments here...but it's one that I do try to control, epsescially after the last flare up over it. I can't really control what everyone's opinion is...although I do try to discourage it. I've never been one that's really for it...there's good and bad about both forums...but people will say what's on their minds, and you can't really stop them if they have good reasons.
One of the points that I've made about this forum, is that I'm not going to censor anyone's opinions...even if it's comments about how stinky my forum is...slow...whateverz. I think that's important to realize.
Secondly, yes, if you do ever go after it...just let me know...and I have no problems helping you out with whatever attempts you'd like to give a go. As far as the situation here...I belive it's simply a matter of differing opinions...as long as you guys respect each other, and give each other credit for your differing viewpoints...the discussion is warranted, and valuable.
Take it easy, guys...
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 01:24 PM
Sorry Brian... gonna have to disagree with you.
1) You own a vehicle.
2) You as the owner/operator are responsible for assuring compliance with the law.
3) You want to modify the vehicle, perform the mods and the other required items as close to the inspection date as possible. Not convenient? Take the chance and drive it like that or park it and drive something else.
Now, I dont know about you, but for as long as I have been driving modded vehicles I've had recon on just about all of them (At least those that required it)... Never had a problem, unless I failed to have everything in place.
I took the time to understand the law, and if there were items in question, the validate the answers to my satisfaction. I called... quite a few times actually (back in the day) for information. I showed good faith in wanting to assure my vehicles were legal, and that I didnt have to come back a second time... (I had to ONCE... )
Was I upset I had to come back? sure... but honestly, it wasnt a question I asked, and IIRC I didnt mention the mod that required the return trip... effectively putting the burden on me.
John could have taken the same approach... but it doesnt seem that way.
Now John, this isnt a cheap shot but all of your responses are "I know a thing or two"... about something. You said :
In our department we are not afforded that luxury of breaks away from the workstation. I cant speak 100% for MVC but considering they do NOT have a dedicated break area I would take a chance and say that they do not have that luxury either. (They work out of portables)
We take our breaks in accordance with the collective bargaining agreement times, with proper clean-up time allowed. My operations staff works straight through, eating lunch "on the run" but if the shit hits the fan during break or lunch, lunch gets put aside, problem addressed then lunch/break resumes.
In most "customer service" oriented departments they are allowed breaks away from the workstation (sattelite city hall, drivers license, etc). Downside of this I see people complaining when they go on a legitimate break!
Here's what I've learned working for the city in almost 20 years:
The general public is VERY misinformed as to what public employees jobs are and will complain without just cause 99% of the time.
A vast majority of complaints are without warrant. (usually just rants) These tie up the services for legitimate concerns regarding city processes.
People from private sector always thing they can run it better... until they see all the fixtures in place, then realize its not as easy as it looks. Lots of obstacles and requirements not always obvious from the surface.
I'm not one to form opinions based on internet conversations, and I've never met you personally. Our only interaction has been on the motorcycle forum on FH.
Brian...
Strike 1... No... I addressed this above
Strike 2... If John saw 5-10 minutes of the staffs entire day, you'd make judgement of how the office is run based on that? No... not at all... but I would find out more about the day to day operation before I make a complaint.
Strike 3... The inspection process can be quick if everything is in order. Most failures are on the very obvious. It actually took me longer to do the paperwork than the actual inspection. Then you wait while the permit to operate is completed by the office and all is issued. The entire process took me just under 1/2 hour.
Hmmm well with what I'm gathering you're trying to say that that's the way it is and it'll take for hell to freeze over to change things?
Sorry but I believe that SOP's need to be revised every so often. Yes quite sad that those who will complain will base it on a short visit but it doesn't sound just to completley rule out anything that person with a complaint has to say.
Civil Service policies can be changed may take a motion that moves slower than molasses but SOP's do get revisioned. I say that John is not happy and has expressed his displeasure with his experience. He vents and of course it draws support from both side. But from what I've read John is going to do something about it. We'll just wait to see how far it goes.
However if I've fully misinterpreted your argumentive points forgive me, it is afterall the internet and arguements on the internet have an easy time being taken out of context.
Hmmm well with what I'm gathering you're trying to say that that's the way it is and it'll take for hell to freeze over to change things?
Sorry but I believe that SOP's need to be revised every so often. Yes quite sad that those who will complain will base it on a short visit but it doesn't sound just to completley rule out anything that person with a complaint has to say.
it would have helped HAD he said something. Mr. T said that he didn't make a stink about anything. so why come here (or FH rather) and complain about things needing to be changed and yet not say anything at the office when he was there? Mr. T is not amused with his comments and inferences that that office does not know what they are doing. i don't disagree that things can be changed but don't just come on a board and ***** about it, throw insults, and do NOTHING. i'm sick of that booshet.
the only person who has EVER done anything about their complaints is Drew. and even Drew got into an argument with Mr. T AT THE OFFICE.
when i had a problem with the AV inspector in my work area (where there is a lack of parking due to the fukkers that live in that area who leave their cars in the same spot for days on end)...i would put in complaints. and then i found out he was CLOSING complaints without even actually marking or checking the cars. you can bet i was fuccin pissed off as hell, i made complaints to the Mayor's office, i made phone calls to his direct supervisor. and you know what? when i make a AV complaint about cars on my work street you can bet it is fuccing taken care of now.
i DID something about it...but i did something about it because i KNOW DAMN WELL WHAT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING. i did it. i don't make complaints about shet i know nothing about.
i am sick of people making these asshole comments just because they do not like recon. i have had more than three (counting now) people who i pretty much before respected insult him and the office, and i have had two others (one who even met him) make up a booshet story just because they wanted to see what i would say (this person even admitted to me in a PM that he made up part of the story just for shets and giggles).
sorry but the disrespect from some of you makes me fuccing sick.
^the lying story was the straw that broke the camel's back.
i don't what...does b i tching about recon on FH make you look like one of the cool kids or something? :confused:
also, like i stated before...the way things are now is DUE TO PRIOR COMPLAINTS. people who actually DID complain, to a real person, and not just on a board.
i think it's safe to say that that person had concerns, addressed it in a proper manner, and did so without insults and negative inferences.
GO and make your complaints. then maybe it can go back to the way it was.
there are 3 appts an hour. you can not "walk-in"
appt A: comes in and gets his recon inspection
appt B: does not show up
appt C: is waiting
if someone was to "walk in" and take appt B's appointment, and something goes awry (as is the case sometimes), and takes longer than the allotted time and you were appt C, DON'T tell me you wouldn't be fuccing pissed and think wtf, i waited two weeks for an appointment, and this fuktard can mosey in, make a stink, and delay MY appointment? that's fuccing booshet^.
xurusaibobx
02-10-2008, 03:41 PM
broke the camel toe? lol jk
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 05:17 PM
Aye yai yai......sounds like now people can't express their complaints?
Everyone is going to have something to say and there's no stopping it. But from what I gather I'd like to see how far John takes it.
As for saying anything to the office itself I say anyone reserves the right not to but to ***** upward from there on. Some people may feel that it may instigate confrontation with the direct employees. Kill them with Kindness anyone? We're all guilty of doing that at some point or another.
Keeping in mind that it's a State funded office, there fore any Hawaii State Tax payers has every right to ***** about how their tax paying dollars is being spent. Assuming that John has been in good standings with his taxes he has every right to *****. Unless John has went in the manner of describing any of those involved in a derogatory way, I see nothing wrong with what he put.
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 05:21 PM
...i am sick of people making these asshole comments just because they do not like recon. i have had more than three (counting now) people who i pretty much before respected insult him and the office, and i have had two others (one who even met him) make up a booshet story just because they wanted to see what i would say (this person even admitted to me in a PM that he made up part of the story just for shets and giggles).
Not that I'm trying to defend myself in any part but I never intended to insult your husband based on discussions before. You simply took things personal, and as history repeating itself you're making this entire situation with you and John a personal matter.
Let the personal side go and just call John on it. How far will he get with his claim of legal pursuit.
ChroniC588
02-10-2008, 05:35 PM
woh ur husband does recon inspections? ;)
u my new bestest friend.:D
Aye yai yai......sounds like now people can't express their complaints?
Everyone is going to have something to say and there's no stopping it. But from what I gather I'd like to see how far John takes it.
As for saying anything to the office itself I say anyone reserves the right not to but to ***** upward from there on. Some people may feel that it may instigate confrontation with the direct employees. Kill them with Kindness anyone? We're all guilty of doing that at some point or another.
Keeping in mind that it's a State funded office, there fore any Hawaii State Tax payers has every right to ***** about how their tax paying dollars is being spent. Assuming that John has been in good standings with his taxes he has every right to *****. Unless John has went in the manner of describing any of those involved in a derogatory way, I see nothing wrong with what he put.
i don't mind people complaining...i do mind when they can't make their complaints without calling people stupid, lazy, incompetent, calling into question their integrity...something you once did too. or have you forgotten? because i sure haven't.
i posted a lot of stuff of which people have had concerns with and if they won't take why what goes on the way it does...what else can i do? i'm not going to make the complaint for them...they're the one with the complaint.
when i have complaints i make sure i know what is going on and then i DO IT. no whining on the board and saying you're going to do this and do that...and then not do anything...as usual.
Not that I'm trying to defend myself in any part but I never intended to insult your husband based on discussions before. You simply took things personal, and as history repeating itself you're making this entire situation with you and John a personal matter.
Let the personal side go and just call John on it. How far will he get with his claim of legal pursuit.
...
if you don't want me to take it personal then don't make it personal. simple but some of you forget that ...or simply don't care.
i hold myself higher and respect most people enough to not try and attack their other half without even knowing what is going on.
i can see if you know how things are run, and you can claim that you do, but...you don't.
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 07:45 PM
i don't mind people complaining...i do mind when they can't make their complaints without calling people stupid, lazy, incompetent, calling into question their integrity...something you once did too. or have you forgotten? because i sure haven't.
I never specically called anyone on their integrity. I've peviously blanketed such statement to prevent anyone from seriously taking offense. And yes I've forgotten because I never personally intended to inslult anyone. Again you turned it into a personal issue just like how your doing now with John. I just simply disagree with the system in place.
i posted a lot of stuff of which people have had concerns with and if they won't take why what goes on the way it does...what else can i do? i'm not going to make the complaint for them...they're the one with the complaint.
Same goes with people who disagree with such a system like our topic of Recon.
when i have complaints i make sure i know what is going on and then i DO IT. no whining on the board and saying you're going to do this and do that...and then not do anything...as usual.
Well let's call John on it, he has stated that he has the inentions on pursuing something. Let's wait and see, I'm very curious myself.
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 07:51 PM
if you don't want me to take it personal then don't make it personal. simple but some of you forget that ...or simply don't care.
i hold myself higher and respect most people enough to not try and attack their other half without even knowing what is going on.
i can see if you know how things are run, and you can claim that you do, but...you don't.
Aye yai yai again......if I recall correctly you're quite the advocate for telling others who have a problem with what they read in the threads to just simply exit and don't bother coming back. Seems like you could use some of your own advice.
And honestly I haven't seen anyone try to personally attack your husband (keep in mind that I haven't read ALL of the recon problems stated on the forums). Although you like to claim that they have (including myself in that category too). In any of the Recon situations that I've read I haven't seen anyone specifically call your husband on it. You simply take it personal because it's what your husband does for a living. So be it, I'm sure he's aware that he can't please everyone.
Aye yai yai again......if I recall correctly you're quite the advocate for telling others who have a problem with what they read in the threads to just simply exit and don't bother coming back. Seems like you could use some of your own advice.
i tell that to people who i don't know, not to people i (used to) respect.
there's some stuff i would certainly say to people i know but i don't go on a board and try to publically bash them.
if i had done the same thing that you did but instead it was Erin that i was making insulting inferences towards (and worse yet, when i know nothing about her job duties/policies)...oh yeah, i bet that would have gone over REAL WELL.
when that kid Marcus used to bash my husband i'd argue with him but i wouldn't give a fu ck because i didn't know or respect him. like i said i expected respect from people i respected...guess i was wrong.
I never specically called anyone on their integrity..
IIRC you inferred that the reason why there were unscrupulous safety check inspectors was because of the people who were conferring these creeps their licenses in the first place.
then i said it isn't their job to give the safety check inspector test AND a morals test. then i pretty much made it known to you that that comment was way out of line and that you ought to knock it off. but in your pursuit of wanting to be right you continued. man i wish i saved that thread. then again it was full of shet so i guess it's better off.
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 08:52 PM
i tell that to people who i don't know, not to people i (used to) respect.
Wow I really don't know what more to say about that. This could turn in a bunch of directions from here so I'll just leave that comment at that.
if i had done the same thing that you did but instead it was Erin that i was making insulting inferences towards (and worse yet, when i know nothing about her job duties/policies)...oh yeah, i bet that would have gone over REAL WELL.
Try it, from this stand point Erin doesn't work for a system that isn't as heavily scutnized as your husband profession. So hence the term it "comes with the territory".
I work for Oceanic, I'm sure there are 1001 complaints about them but I'm not on verge entertaining all those complaints let alone let it become personal. I highly suggest you learn the difference.
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 08:55 PM
IIRC you inferred that the reason why there were unscrupulous safety check inspectors was because of the people who were conferring these creeps their licenses in the first place.
then i said it isn't their job to give the safety check inspector test AND a morals test. then i pretty much made it known to you that that comment was way out of line and that you ought to knock it off. but in your pursuit of wanting to be right you continued. man i wish i saved that thread. then again it was full of shet so i guess it's better off.
I recall that I presented arguments to help improve the system. Find the faults up top so that the changes can trickle down. That's how Government jobs work.
Things at the bottom can't change if the top side isn't helping the situation. Hence my previous statement of "Lead by Example".
Wow I really don't know what more to say about that. This could turn in a bunch of directions from here so I'll just leave that comment at that.
Try it, from this stand point Erin doesn't work for a system that isn't as heavily scutnized as your husband profession. So hence the term it "comes with the territory".
I work for Oceanic, I'm sure there are 1001 complaints about them but I'm not on verge entertaining all those complaints let alone let it become personal. I highly suggest you learn the difference.
i don't see complaints on the board about either...not that there probably isn't.
so...because it's "heavily scrutinized" (mostly by the people who it hasn't worked for)...it's fair game to insult someone, even if you personally know them?
uh...ok. i think i knew that for awhile.
you didn't (and have never) answered that question...if i ever acted like that towards Erin, would you be irritated? yes or no?
thing is...i would have never done that out of respect. and that is my point.
I recall that I presented arguments to help improve the system. Find the faults up top so that the changes can trickle down. That's how Government jobs work.
Things at the bottom can't change if the top side isn't helping the situation. Hence my previous statement of "Lead by Example".
the "top side" is helping the situation. they regulate their ethics by reconnaisance when there are complaints about safety check misdeeds.
their clerks are full on anal nazis and check EVERY SINGLE safety check form for errors (intentional or not) and from there, also, complaints are acted upon.
you cannot regulate a safety check inspector candidate's ethics/morals before the person actually gets one. how the hell? :confused:
Wow I really don't know what more to say about that. This could turn in a bunch of directions from here so I'll just leave that comment at that.
yes it could.
i wish you could have done that back in the thread that caused all of this. it's unfortunate that it took that long for you to realize that.
ikeyballz
02-10-2008, 09:36 PM
You are definetly correct in that there's alot of anti-FH sentiments here...but it's one that I do try to control, epsescially after the last flare up over it. I can't really control what everyone's opinion is...although I do try to discourage it. I've never been one that's really for it...there's good and bad about both forums...but people will say what's on their minds, and you can't really stop them if they have good reasons.
One of the points that I've made about this forum, is that I'm not going to censor anyone's opinions...even if it's comments about how stinky my forum is...slow...whateverz. I think that's important to realize.
Secondly, yes, if you do ever go after it...just let me know...and I have no problems helping you out with whatever attempts you'd like to give a go. As far as the situation here...I belive it's simply a matter of differing opinions...as long as you guys respect each other, and give each other credit for your differing viewpoints...the discussion is warranted, and valuable.
Take it easy, guys...
yeah, i agree. everyone does take cheap shots @ FH..but its all in fun, its the 'big boy' you know? the bully/older brother that everyone loves to hate. and most of the time, its done tounge in cheek. half the time its also true, some people @ FH are idiots..and undoubtedly there are some registered here also, just the whole stereotype of FH spilling over. and if i recall..the one time a guy came over and for his first post said 'FH IS STUPID' everyone did tell him to chillax...(even tho later we found out he was JK.ing) i think if youre not on this site a lot and you just read the 'fh idiots' thread then it looks bad, cuz you dont understand the jokes much..and i guess thats the problem with the internet.. you dont know what context you should take it in, and as sgt ox said, gotta see it from another point of view. i think all the mods here do a damn good job of policing the threads and the old members as well as the newbies get a pretty good and fair warning for anything. i'm do have both a HT and a FH account but overall i dont visit FH more than once a month, just to check classifieds/ etc...
just my 2 cents... sorry for the recon thread jack.
:jail:
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 10:31 PM
...so...because it's "heavily scrutinized" (mostly by the people who it hasn't worked for)...it's fair game to insult someone, even if you personally know them?
Will the complaints ever cease in regards to the role of Law Enforcement officers? I'm sure every Police Officer out there is aware that there are some of the population who refer to them with derogatory name and doesn't feel they're doing their jobs to the full extent. Those complaints won't stop just like the complaints about recon. Again comes with the territory.
...you didn't (and have never) answered that question...if i ever acted like that towards Erin, would you be irritated? yes or no?
thing is...i would have never done that out of respect. and that is my point.
Yes I did I responded with....
Try it, from this stand point Erin doesn't work for a system that isn't as heavily scutnized as your husband profession. So hence the term it "comes with the territory".
I work for Oceanic, I'm sure there are 1001 complaints about them but I'm not on verge entertaining all those complaints let alone let it become personal. I highly suggest you learn the difference.
....in which I said that I won't let it get personal. When Erin complains to me about those who complain about her work I simply laugh at it all. There's no need to get all personal and riled up based on the very few things one has to say.
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 10:33 PM
the "top side" is helping the situation. they regulate their ethics by reconnaisance when there are complaints about safety check misdeeds.
their clerks are full on anal nazis and check EVERY SINGLE safety check form for errors (intentional or not) and from there, also, complaints are acted upon.
you cannot regulate a safety check inspector candidate's ethics/morals before the person actually gets one. how the hell? :confused:
Good to hear because of previous stories to which Safety Inspectors have informed me it sounded like otherwise. Lets hope what you say is the final word.
Yes I did I responded with....
....in which I said that I won't let it get personal. When Erin complains to me about those who complain about her work I simply laugh at it all. There's no need to get all personal and riled up based on the very few things one has to say.
i'm talking about on the board. good way to sidestep the question.
glad to see you support her so well.
Good to hear because of previous stories to which Safety Inspectors have informed me it sounded like otherwise. Lets hope what you say is the final word.
yes, it is.
how you gonna regulate the beforehand?
the person passes the test and then what? they gonna ask them if they're going to pass people that shouldn't pass? wtf you THINK they're going to answer? "oh yeah i'm going to pass people that shouldn't"???
unrealistic expectation. x 872438
that's like i go into an interview for a job and they ask me if i'm going to do shoddy work and if i'm going to steal from the company. what do you THINK i'm going to say?
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 10:39 PM
yes it could.
i wish you could have done that back in the thread that caused all of this. it's unfortunate that it took that long for you to realize that.
There's the difference between you and me. I like to engage in discussions with debate in mind. I stated what's on my mind and I hold no regards to whether it's directed towards a friend or stranger. I simply state what is on my mind by doing so in a respectable manner to not single any one person out in any attempt to personally insult them. I think my experience in the military has helped me in that department when *****ing up the chain of command.
Again you have taken the liberty to address that it was a personal jab that I took.
Now before this conversation starts to go round and around lets back on track about why this initial thread was started. I'm sure you had John in mind so let's wait and see if John puts his money where his mouth is.
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 10:41 PM
i'm talking about on the board. good way to sidestep the question.
glad to see you support her so well.
I told you go ahead and try it. And nice jab at my relationship with my wife. Again I take nothing personal go ahead criticize her job she's an optician at Kaiser.
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 10:43 PM
yes, it is.
how you gonna regulate the beforehand?
the person passes the test and then what? they gonna ask them if they're going to pass people that shouldn't pass? wtf you THINK they're going to answer? "oh yeah i'm going to pass people that shouldn't"???
unrealistic expectation. x 872438
that's like i go into an interview for a job and they ask me if i'm going to do shoddy work and if i'm going to steal from the company. what do you THINK i'm going to say?
Again good to know I'll wait it out to see
I stated what's on my mind and I hold no regards to whether it's directed towards a friend or stranger.
well then that's the difference between you and me.
i prefer to hold my friends in regard and afford them a little respect when dealing with them on the board whether i disagree with them or not.
this is why i always respected Dee when he told me to stfu at FH. i respect him, whether i wanted to go on or not. so i would stop.
it has been obvious to me that you don't believe in that school of thought so for the most part i regard you as a non-entity.
I told you go ahead and try it. And nice jab at my relationship with my wife. Again I take nothing personal go ahead criticize her job she's an optician at Kaiser.
i WON'T try it. because i like her, i've met her, i've helped you guys out when you needed help.
and...i know nothing about her job so i won't be presumptuous and pretend to think i know what she has to go through on a daily basis, and then go and insult her.
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 10:52 PM
well then that's the difference between you and me.
i prefer to hold my friends in regard and afford them a little respect when dealing with them on the board whether i disagree with them or not.
this is why i always respected Dee when he told me to stfu at FH. i respect him, whether i wanted to go on or not. so i would stop.
it has been obvious to me that you don't believe in that school of thought so for the most part i regard you as a non-entity.
Lois whether or not you were my friend it won't deter my thoughts on the Reconstruction Law and the way the program has been operated.
Again I stated respectfully without intentionally singling any one individual out. You seem to presist that everyone who has a complaint about that office is taking a personal jab at your husband. I beg you to please learn the difference.
Oh yeah and to the bolded nice jab again. From the way I see it you're running out of issues to debate with so it's now resulting to personal insults from you. Please refrain from such behavior you are a Moderator on this board so from one Moderator to another please stop.
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 10:55 PM
i WON'T try it. because i like her, i've met her, i've helped you guys out when you needed help.
and...i know nothing about her job so i won't be presumptuous and pretend to think i know what she has to go through on a daily basis, and then go and insult her.
And We have expressed out gratitude when you did help my family out.
And please stop presisting that I insulted your husband. You're currently failing and carrying on a healthy discussion.
it's one thing to point out problems (yes there are)
it's another to impugn one's integrity when addressing it.
how many times do i have to repeat that.
you made much more stinging jabs in that prior thread as to his knowledge and integrity back then, and as a mod i realize that, and i am truly, out of respect for your position and this board, not saying in public what i would really be saying to you.
if you want to take this to pm, you can, but i won't promise that i will answer (as i am not much one for PMs [obviously]) and pretty much you can't explain to me anything that you have tried to back pedal on. you cannot take back words you say to a friend or loved one. you should be careful what you say.
better yet, for the best interest of this board, i just ignore you like i was doing before? :)
i think that went better.
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 11:04 PM
it's one thing to point out problems (yes there are)
it's another to impugn one's integrity when addressing it.
how many times do i have to repeat that.
you made much more stinging jabs in that prior thread as to his knowledge and integrity back then, and as a mod i realize that, and i am truly, out of respect for your position and this board, not saying in public what i would really be saying to you.
if you want to take this to pm, you can, but i won't promise that i will answer (as i am not much one for PMs [obviously]) and pretty much you can't explain to me anything that you have tried to back pedal on. you cannot take back words you say to a friend or loved one. you should be careful what you say.
This is going roung and around. State to me SPECIFICALLY who's integrity did I question? I countered your claim that most Safety Inspectors didn't know any better. I clearly stated then that they weren't being challenged enough. It's just like giving someone some slack on a rope give them a little and see how far they go.
If you husband's crew inspects and has the ability to revoke one's Inspecting license then the only way to counter that issue of ignorant Safety Inspectors is to come out in full force and challenge them even more.
I'm aware that you stated that they're already doing it, but if the shop is being overwhelmed then it is the duty of the big boss of that department to ***** up the chain to request for more funding to bring in more employees.
***edit*** and with what you stated it's worthless of an attempt to PM you then. And for your claims of me back pedaling please state what issues and I'll address them. There is no back pedaling from me I stick to my guns like George Bush on Iraq.
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 11:06 PM
better yet, for the best interest of this board, i just ignore you like i was doing before? :)
i think that went better.
If you wish.
ArchangelX
02-10-2008, 11:19 PM
Hmm...this is becoming more personal than "discussion" based. Please take it to PM. If you don't want to work it out through PM, then I suggest you drop it, or agree to disagree. Regardless of who threw the first punch, there's not much point in arguing about who got hit first. Thanks guys and gals...don't need two of my best mods going at each other. ;)
back on John's issues.
when he complains...GOOD. then they're going to what? go back to how it was before?
obviously someone had legitimate complaints and addressed it to the Administration...the Administration then reviewed the complaints and then this is the policy you are seeing now.
you are never going to make EVERYONE happy.
or, you can go Rob's route and make sure all your eggs are in the basket, make educated purchases (what do i need to do to make this vehicle legal in the county i am bringing it into? can i even MAKE it legal? what paperwork do i need? what is the timeframe in which i need to get my documents straight?)
remember YOU are the one buying the vehicle or modding it. it is YOUR responsiblity to do what you need to do ( if you don't want tickets--if younokea, then nooneelsekea either). when things don't go your way to a T...as is the way it is sometimes (like the time i had to add on an extra semester at UH just to get my BA which i knew i wasn't going to need anyway, really...because i had miscalculated credits)...suck it up. sometimes shit happens but then don't go balming everyone else just because things didn't go your way. i could have blamed the advisor for not raising a red flag for me but i didn't expect her to babysit me, either. i chose a certain path, things were messed up and i just did it.
i got my BA in History and in hindsight it wasn't a big deal. it cost me another semester but i just sucked it up and did it.
the bottom line is that, like Rob, if you want to do things to your vehicle here in the auto nazi state you need to do some research. i can see if you have problems when you are in the military and come from a state where they allow ANYTHING and you claim ignorance. but...for kama'aina to claim not to know (that is, if they are conscientious enough)...that's where i am :confused:
Hmm...this is becoming more personal than "discussion" based. Please take it to PM. If you don't want to work it out through PM, then I suggest you drop it, or agree to disagree. Regardless of who threw the first punch, there's not much point in arguing about who got hit first. Thanks guys and gals...don't need two of my best mods going at each other. ;)
don't worry, Mike, i apologize.
i can't forgive it so it's best he go back to persona non grata.
Sgt_Ox
02-10-2008, 11:30 PM
don't worry, Mike, i apologize.
i can't forgive it so it's best he go back to persona non grata.
Aye yai yai! Mike you have PM inbound
ArchangelX
02-10-2008, 11:39 PM
Thread is being locked. Take care of it guys...
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