Texas vote for Hillary...drop Obama!

[ChroniC588]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080213/ap_on_el_pr/clinton

come on Texas...do it...get Hillary in so she can get smashed by the GOP.:keith:

juice the Democrat caucus.
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080213/capt.d44d3f55fbc84df9acfb34ad055e200c.clinton_2008 _txck105.jpg

[radopps]

if Hillary doesn't win both primaries by big margins she can all but kiss those superdelegates goodbye...how would it look if Obama had the peoples votes but the Superdelegates choose Hillary? there would be a lot more young Republicans!!!

[ChroniC588]

if Hillary doesn't win both primaries by big margins she can all but kiss those superdelegates goodbye...how would it look if Obama had the peoples votes but the Superdelegates choose Hillary? there would be a lot more young Republicans!!!

chee huuu...:yeah:

[Shinigami052]

If Hillary wins I hope someone assassinates her.

[radopps]

hey chronic...who would you rather see McCain go up against...Hillary or Barack???

[corytomo]

I actually think that if Hillary gets in, she will smash McCain. Obama is more even money with McCain.

[radopps]

I actually view it as the opposite way...Hillary just seems to make the Republicans rally together...she is such a polarizing person...its sad...I think either her or Obama would do well in office...and I don't like the whole "record" factor...saying Hillary has a huge experience margin over Obama is like saying Bush can run the country great because he had experience in govt.

[ChroniC588]

Here's my view...

If its Hillary vs. McCain the main issue will be the war. McCain will knock her ass out.

If its Obama vs McCain it'll be social issues. It'll be akin to the Kennedy/Nixon televised debate. Even though Nixon gave the better answer, Kennedy's charisma enthralled everyone. I'm sorry to admit...but McCain is not charismatic compared to Obama who is half his age.

So I prefer GOP have a better edge. Besides...with the way Hillary's campaign got in hot water for lambasting Obama on race issues. I'm sure there will be quite a few who hate Hillary about that who will jump into the McCain wagon.:pp:

Now if Huckabee will just STFU and bow out already...McCain.

-----------------
p.s. I am very pleased that Obama and Hillary screwed up and decided to make a close debate in Texas. That was sheer brilliance. Shows the truth of how arrogant they both are.:pp:

[radopps]

If hillary wins because of superdelegates than i could see myself leaning towards McCain...i'll leave that for later!!!

[ikeyballz]

im with chronic's assesment of the situation.

hillary vs. mccain.. hillary should lose...

obama vs mccain... i think obama has teh edge..

however, i do sort of want to see what would happen if obama got elected president...other countries WILL view us differently... i know japan is behind bama.


i think it will be easier to resolve the middle east issues if obama is pres..........idk for sure,but i think they will work with the USA more.

thats just my 2cents..


now..if it was ron paul vs obama...id take ron paul all the way.

he's an interesting fellow.. hes quiet, not so 'pick me pick me..' but he has his air of confidence + old man charisma.


i think out of everyone we've seen..he would.. really make the best rpes.

[ChroniC588]

alot of ppl are going based solely on his ethnicity when it comes to Obama. That has become his #1 credential...that he is black.

I dont like that. There is nothing wrong with his ethnicity. It would be nice to have a black president, or a woman president, or even a gay president...that's not the point.

My concern is we shouldn't be electing Presidents just because of what they look like or their genetic makeup. We are supposed to selecting Presidents because they have what it takes to do the job.

But all I hear in the news about him are 2 things:

1. He's black
2. He went school in Hawaii (Punahou HS)

Now how exactly do those qualities make him qualified as a President?

I want to hear more about what he has done to prepare for the Presidency. Which is totally blank on the news media.

At least Mrs. Clinton has said some things...she is for univeral healthcare, withdrawal from Iraq, etc. So at least I can judge her based on her stance on important issues (which I thus far have labeled her a socialist).

----------------------
btw Inouye and McCain have had some bitter fights...one about NCL and another about the Akaka Bill. It was McCain who tried to block both. So he isnt popular here amongst the Dumbocrats.

You can see Inouye pop a blood vessel with NCL now pulling out and having done exactly what McCain complained about..wasted hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to accomplish nothing.

[beefy242]

We are supposed to selecting Presidents because they have what it takes to do the job.

But all I hear in the news about him are 2 things:

1. He's black
2. He went school in Hawaii (Punahou HS)

Now how exactly do those qualities make him qualified as a President?

At least Mrs. Clinton has said some things...she is for univeral healthcare, withdrawal from Iraq, etc. So at least I can judge her based on her stance on important issues (which I thus far have labeled her a socialist).

People nowadays assume that because they are running for president, the only reason to vote for them is because of something simple that they have common grounds with. It gives them more comfort, and since there is no real way to figure out exactly what the candidates are up to besides hearing NBC's biased opinion on who should be president.

plus, this whole healthcare thing... we wont be able to afford it. I think it was Montana that tried to have a universal healthcare system, would cost them 12 million a year while they only gain about 10 million a year. Sure, England and Canada are great countries, because they have such great healthcare thats universal... well, ever consider the fact that nearly half of their income goes to TAXES???? Its a great idea, but in order for it to work we would need a very minor coverage plan, like the cheapest car insurance you can find. bare minimum. so you still end up paying quite a bit out of pocket incase of an accident.

[ChroniC588]

yeah dude...I share the same sentiment regarding the universal healthcare. We cant afford it.

We already cant afford social security...medicare and medicaid...how the hell are we gonna pay for yet another super expensive welfare program?

Dumbocrats are insane sometimes...they have no logic when it comes to the financial constraints. All they see is the moral side of the arguments. They refuse to look at whether we can even pay for it or not.

Next they will want to make college free and have everyone entitled to free college tuition.:pp:

But yeah man...I agree with you...we cant afford these crazy dumbocrat programs.

[beefy242]

yeah dude...I share the same sentiment regarding the universal healthcare. We cant afford it.

We already cant afford social security...medicare and medicaid...how the hell are we gonna pay for yet another super expensive welfare program?

Dumbocrats are insane sometimes...they have no logic when it comes to the financial constraints. All they see is the moral side of the arguments. They refuse to look at whether we can even pay for it or not.

Next they will want to make college free and have everyone entitled to free college tuition.:pp:

But yeah man...I agree with you...we cant afford these crazy dumbocrat programs.


glad we're on the same page....:slider:

[radopps]

you guys want us to leave and let the two of you make out for a while???

[NasTee]

McClinton or Obillary?

[ChroniC588]

you guys want us to leave and let the two of you make out for a while???

wha? we both same taste in JDM chicks....wha we cant agree on stuff?:smile2:

[radopps]

sure...go ahead!!! speaking of JDM chicks...there were these two nice ones registering to vote on tuesday!!!

[MasterFunk]

alot of ppl are going based solely on his ethnicity when it comes to Obama. That has become his #1 credential...that he is black.


You know whats worse?

It's people ignorant enough to never actually pay enough attention to the candidates opinions, such that you think that the only issue is their ethnicity/gender.

Have you ever actually listened to what the candidates themselves have to say, or do you simply glance thru the headlines and make rash judgments, and form such ignorant arguments based on this alone? There's tons of information out there. Just watch a speech or better yet a debate. It's not just Hillary and Obama shouting at each other "I'M BLACK!" or "I HAVE A VAGINA!" They're discussing real things, and you're not paying attention. If you're reading newspapers or or other sources that only base their stories on race and gender, then thats your own problem. Intelligent people know how to find better sources than some little catchphrases that get thrown around the media and the internet.
It's ignorant voters like this that have tremendously screwed up this country. Nobody takes the time to actually learn more about the real situation and the context of the one-liners they repeatedly judge people upon. If you ever actually studied a bit about their healthcare plans they are proposing, then you would know that there aren't really any major new costs. Its completely affordable.
But no, lets just ignore the candidates actual plans, and make up our own judgements within our own little minds and rattle off some kind of rambling, insulting argument to make ourselves feel holier than thou.

[ChroniC588]

I dont know what study Obama and Clinton are citing, but universal healthcare aint affordable.

And I dont think an intelligent person would honestly believe a Dumbocrat saying a universal welfare program is affordable. Every single welfare program they have proposed has been a monstrosity: Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security.

And how are those programs doing? Are they running in the black?

Ever looked at your paycheck? All those deductions are because of brilliant Dumbocrat social welfare programs. And what you see is only half the cost, the other half is forked over by your employer.

And when you reach income levels when AMT rapes you...you can also thank Dumbocrats.

If you really do listen to Dumbocrats, they never speak about finances, money. They always talk about "moral" or "ethics" behind their actions. They are more than happy to create these programs and borrow money to pay for them. But where is the morals and ethics in creating programs that we cant afford?

Its like a friend who buys you alot of nice presents with YOUR credit card. And your supposed to be thanking them?:beatup:

P.S. I have studied healthcare finances and ethics. I spoke to many professionals and experts who told me the same thing. The # 1 reason why healthcare costs are out of control in this country are because of two programs:

Medicare and Medicaid. Prior to the creation of these programs healthcare costs were in line with the rest of the world. Now with the creation of a super-uber-gigantor program that will dwarf Medicare and Medicaid in scope looming in the horizon! wtf do you think will happen?

And come on man...when have private practice ever played fair in charging back the government? Why do you think military toilets seat covers cost $2000 or a single hammer costs $ 10000?:eek9:

Its called lack of oversight, overworked & understaffed govt agencies....two of the big DFAS centers are right in your backyard in Ohio. They are so stressed everything had to be automated. And if there is an error, it takes years to fix.

[MasterFunk]

I dont know what study Obama and Clinton are citing, but universal healthcare aint affordable.

And I dont think an intelligent person would honestly believe a Dumbocrat saying a universal welfare program is affordable. Every single welfare program they have proposed has been a monstrosity: Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security.

And how are those programs doing? Are they running in the black?

Ever looked at your paycheck? All those deductions are because of brilliant Dumbocrat social welfare programs. And what you see is only half the cost, the other half is forked over by your employer.

And when you reach income levels when AMT rapes you...you can also thank Dumbocrats.

If you really do listen to Dumbocrats, they never speak about finances, money. They always talk about "moral" or "ethics" behind their actions. They are more than happy to create these programs and borrow money to pay for them. But where is the morals and ethics in creating programs that we cant afford?

Its like a friend who buys you alot of nice presents with YOUR credit card. And your supposed to be thanking them?:beatup:

P.S. I have studied healthcare finances and ethics. I spoke to many professionals and experts who told me the same thing. The # 1 reason why healthcare costs are out of control in this country are because of two programs:

Medicare and Medicaid. Prior to the creation of these programs healthcare costs were in line with the rest of the world. Now with the creation of a super-uber-gigantor program that will dwarf Medicare and Medicaid in scope looming in the horizon! wtf do you think will happen?

And come on man...when have private practice ever played fair in charging back the government? Why do you think military toilets seat covers cost $2000 or a single hammer costs $ 10000?:eek9:

Honestly, you don't have a damn bit of substance in all lines of text you just stated. You still repeatedly use simple insults, and cite things by either not stating them directly or referring to supposed 'intelligent' people that you have spoken with, but you can't put into words your own understanding of it. I'll admit that I honestly don't know much about healthcare financing. I know that whats in place does not work from personal experiences, and I'd like to learn more.
But due to your unprofessional tactics, I can't believe a thing you say, and I can only assume that you've talked with highly biased people that only tell you what you want to hear.

[ChroniC588]

Thats fine. I am very biased towards Dumbocrats. No doubt about it. I can totally agree on that one.

You can say I speak in an infantile, one-liner speech and that you disagree with everything I say. That is fine too. I wont disagree with you on that.

I am not here to convince anyone, I am not here to convince anyone who hasn't convinced themselves on this controversial topic. I am just here to voice my opinion. And since you disagree with everything I said I will take it that you understand what my opinion is and my stance on this issue and by far that is all I wanted to do.

Whether you consider my opinion immature and not above the rhetoric and level of a 5 year old, that is your opinion. And again I'm not here to dissuade or change your opinion, since that would make me truly immature.

I just hope to gosh...universal healthcare remains a fantasy and not the nightmare it will be if they succeed. Because once they create it, no entitlement program of that magnitude can be cancelled. Just try it with the other big three entitlement programs and see how fast every lawyer in this country will be gunning Capitol Hill.

And that is what I am afraid of. If they are wrong (which Dumbocrats have been everytime on big entitlement programs) YOU CANT GET RID OF IT!

[MasterFunk]

Whether you consider my opinion immature and not above the rhetoric and level of a 5 year old, that is your opinion. And again I'm not here to dissuade or change your opinion, since that would make me truly immature.


Thanks for filling in some of the blanks! But if you're not trying to convince anyone or contribute to general knowledge, then why speak to begin with? Guess it could be some kind of primal desire, as hearing the sound of your own voice does trigger dopamine receptors (only yet studied in women, though).
I'd much rather contribute to knowledge and society in general when possible though, as it pains me to see people misled by false and biased information. I actually like to hear when people disagree with me, and when they can present solid information that can help me learn new things. Some people have trouble with accepting other perspectives though, and I know it is a difficult process. We have to try, though.

[radopps]

this is just oh so close to deteriorating into an "F U and yo family...i goin kick ya azz!!!" kind of conversation...anyway...quick question Chronic:

How can the UK have universal healthcare and the US can't?

I know that a program of that level will need to be funded by taxes and such but I don't see a problem with me making a little less if it ensures that others have health coverage. I just don't like it when my friend's dad has to beg and plead with his insurance company because they won't pay for experimental surgery that may help his wife see again!!!

[radopps]

oh...and both of you need to cool off a bit...i like both of you guys and wouldn't want someone's opinion on politics to ruin anything in here!!!

[Altivec]

Hmmm, very intresting.:sailor:

[MasterFunk]

oh...and both of you need to cool off a bit...i like both of you guys and wouldn't want someone's opinion on politics to ruin anything in here!!!

It's been totally immature insults in here from Chronic since this discussion area was started. It's went uncontrolled, since what is there really to argue with? It's only just been insults.
I'd rather have civilized discussion at the least, so I'm trying to help out a bit here.

[ChroniC588]

this is just oh so close to deteriorating into an "F U and yo family...i goin kick ya azz!!!" kind of conversation...anyway...quick question Chronic:

How can the UK have universal healthcare and the US can't?

I know that a program of that level will need to be funded by taxes and such but I don't see a problem with me making a little less if it ensures that others have health coverage. I just don't like it when my friend's dad has to beg and plead with his insurance company because they won't pay for experimental surgery that may help his wife see again!!!

I am sorry to hear about your friend's dad's wife.

And yes alot of European countries have Universal healthcare...and they pay for it how you described by higher taxes and running in the red.

And if UHC ever became a reality here...we too would raise taxes and run deeper in red. Some people are cool with that, I'm not.

The reason I'm not is because I am distrustful of the govt in controlling costs and being efficient. They have not proven to me that they can be more efficient than the private sector.

[ChroniC588]

It's been totally immature insults in here from Chronic since this discussion area was started. It's went uncontrolled, since what is there really to argue with? It's only just been insults.
I'd rather have civilized discussion at the least, so I'm trying to help out a bit here.

It became uncontrolled when you started insulting me. I never insulted anyone on HT. I only lambasted the Dumbocrats. And I only lambast specifically the two frontrunners Clinton and Obama.

But you were the first person here to start insulting actual people here (mostly me, which is fine I dont care).

Its fine if you think me a stupid moron with no logic or even any intelligence. Or even better yet you think me some backwater, hillbilly who drinks out of a toilet.

And I'm glad...that you want to contribute your more insightful and intelligent point of view on the topic. It seems alot of the intellectuals have been very silent in this country for many decades...leaving only us idiots who have no sense to be arguing about what to do.

And as of yet all I can ascertain from your posts is that you think Universal Healthcare is affordable and that you agree with the Dumbocrats on that notion. And you want me to listen more intently to them before I say anything against it...so you will be satisfied my arguments have more substance. Is that the general jist of your criticism of me?

Who is more the idiot? The one who wants to participate and say something, or the smart guy in the back of the room who just chuckles at how stupid we are and says nothing?

I rather say something, anything, even if its wrong...than be silent. We've been quiet for too long on all fronts.:nana2mj1rq2:

You know an idiot has been in office for 8 years...and all the smartest people in the world just dont do anything. Heck, one of the smartest Economist ever said something very stupid that cost him his job as President of Harvard (even though it was true). Bush says stupid things everyday and he is still President.:eek9:

[Altivec]

I'm locking this thread before it gets out of hand.