Gotta love the retarded Obama logic.

[ChroniC588]

Obama's plan does not include the so-called "individual mandate" for adults, and he has argued that people cannot be required to buy coverage if they can't afford it. He has said his first priority is bringing down costs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080224/ap_on_el_pr/clinton

umm...moron...do u know why health care costs so much in this country? Because the govt keeps trying to step in and make changes for how it should be run rather than let it run on its own.

Thanks to Medicare/Medicaid healthcare costs have skyrocketed.

You know what is the solution? Cancel those programs....and end govt involvement in private healthcare.

What a freaking dumbass....he wants to bring down costs by creating more govt welfare programs? It costs money to make new programs...that means costs will go UP not down!

:slap: I just cant stand these retarded dumbocrats anymore...they just have absolutely no realistic understanding of the most basic business principles....all they know is how to waste money.

This is so scary..to think both Hillary and Obama...actually all Dumbocrats want to create universal healthcare! What a nightmare. the Dumbocrats created Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, AMT, and all that b.s. that have totally bankrupted this country and put us under such insane liability for generations to come! And they wanna make more of these retarded programs?

And dont get me started on AMT....Dumbocrats are just so retarded they didnt index it for inflation. And even after 40 years they still wont adjust it for inflation automatically but rather spend months debating on adjusting it each year in band aid fixes.

[Shinigami052]

And what are the retardo-republicans trying to do to fix shit in this country? Oh right they're going to have crappy people run this country. I think I've made better decisions than these politicians while high and drunk at the same time...

[ChroniC588]

they are just going to spend less...and let the ppl decide what to do with their own money.

That's why I like Republicans. Except for the stupid war...for the most part their notion is smaller govt, lower taxes and let the ppl figure out how they wanna spend their own money.

In otherwords Republicans realize they are freaking retards and just dont give a s**t about anybody, but to make it up for their stupidity they stick to one smart move...defer it to the people to make their own decisions about their life.

Dumbocrats dont do that...they rather decide for the ppl on everything. Dumbocrats still cling to the idea that they know whats good for everyone and that ppl are stupid. Which is why I hate Dumbocrats. Essentially, Dumbocrats are identical to Socialist Communist pigs.

A brilliant plan.:patriot:

[Easy10pins]

Universal health care will never work in the US. Not while "Bis Business" is involved.

What's the trade off for universal health care? Shitty doctors.

[Shinigami052]

no you know why it doesn't work...because Americans are too greedy. Everything is WAY over inflated and over priced. We're f*cked. No matter if it's a demo or a repub in office, we're screwed because we Americans are fat greedy little pigs.

[MasterFunk]

...and let the ppl decide what to do with their own money.


Here's the enormous problem with your supposed 'logic,' which primarily consists of name-calling that demonstrates you have no working knowledge of the complexity involved other than resorting to insults.

Yes, your cutesy idea of letting the 'people' decide sounds wonderful. But what you're referring to are corporations, not 'people.' Corporations will screw over the employees in every way possible to prevent from paying for their health coverage. Thats just the nature of maximizing profits while cutting costs, which is the essential idea that governs the whole free enterprise system. Healthcare for employees is a huge expense that barely contributes to the bottom-line at all, and it is hugely beneficial for them to find loopholes to avoid paying for it.
I should know, as I've been a hard-working employee thats been screwed out of healthcare myself many times. I worked for a year while in college while employed 'part-time' for usually 37 hours a week with no benefits. They got away with it because every couple months they gave me one 20 hour week, which made me technically part-time. Another time I worked for about a year while they kept promising me benefits when a grant was supposed to arrive, but instead they kept 'firing' and 're-hiring' me every three months so they weren't required to give me benefits at all.

Yeah, there's also this wonderful idea that theoretically a hard-working person should be able to get an education and a better job and can afford healthcare. But you know what? Somebody has to do the shitty jobs. You depend on the service-oriented employees for your way of living. When you go into the Jack in the Box and get your hamburger, would your hamburger to be made by an impoverished pissed-off hobo with herpes falling off them, or a healthy happy person? I'd rather get my hamburger from friendly and helpful people, thanks.

Yeah yeah, you can say we can't afford it as a country either. I know we can't, especially after wasting so much money in Iraq. But the Dems plans aren't as scary as you think, as they take advantage of the systems that are already in place and only fill in the gaps. It's just a baby step toward universal healthcare, not some scary massive restructuring that will cost you money.
Sure we can be alll brave and run into war without fear, but we're not brave enough to take a baby step toward re-arranging our ideas in order to provide for the health and happiness of our own society. Nah, thats too scary, lets go shoot guns and blow up other countries. Thats easy stuff.

Or would you rather I just insult your intelligence all day when I can't think of a real argument? Would that be more of your speed?

[ChroniC588]

Now heres two flaws in ur logic in how you addressed my original argument:

1) I am not advocating a laisez faire system where its a free-for-all. No, I am only stating I dont want universal healthcare. We have a system already in place. The problem with spiraling healthcosts is because of govt interference with Medicare and Medicaid. Had those programs not existed ppl would be more inclined to be careful with their health as they are paying it out of pocket.

Its like the kid who drives his parents sports car. Wth does he care if he runs it into the ground? He hasn't put a penny into that ride. But if he worked his ass off, paid for that thing with his blood, sweat and tears...he would treat that care like it was his baby.

When healthcare follows that same principle...where the cost of usage is not directly associated by those who consume the good...this is what will happen and we have good examples with Medicare and Medicaid suffering just that.

2) You are using the same line from the Dumbocrat playbook...ur trying to play on the "moral" notion that we should care for everyone like they are family. Yes I would prefer a hot JDM chick in a tight fitting outfit with full C cups serving me a Jumbo Jack with Fries...rather than a drugged out, disease ridden person. But thats kinda an extreme example you threw at me.

Here's another example: We have a 35 year old single mother of 3 getting paid minimum wage at Taco Bell. She has diabetes type I, her eldest daughter needs braces bad, the youngest is always getting sick. She cries on Oprah that she needs help.

But what does she do? She eats junk food, doesnt exercise, blows all her money on clothes, shoes, pedicures and hair salons...and goes on trips via VISA credit card to Vegas to blow more money.

Then her cousin tells her, quit your job, go on welfare. Let the govt pay for everything. You deserve it.

How the hell am I supposed to be sympathetic to that? While we got double-income households busting their ass, saving every penny so they can send their kids to college, pay the mortgage, care for their elderly parents...and all the while get pissed on by the Dumbocrats who only want to expand welfare programs and charge them even more taxes!?!

3) And yes...I honestly do believe a rational person knows whats best for themselves and not some stranger on Capitol Hill. Would you like if some random govt official came into your house, rearranged all your furniture, cleared your bank account, garnished your whole paycheck and said...okay from here on out...because I know better than you I will decide all your life's decisions and be giving you an allowance?

And starting now, we will move out of this place, stick you with a roommate in a one room flat. We will sell all your cars, here is a bus pass. We take all your clothes, you will wear just this one Mao suit everyday, here is a stick of soap to wash it.

Freedom of choice is the foundation of this country. It is the very reason why Americans are who we are, because we are able to choose what we want to do, where we want to live and also how we want to live our lives. The Dumbocrats want to take that away in regards to healthcare, give us only one option...a Morton Fork.

P.S. and dude you may get heated and call me a wise-ass, but I feel you on the whole denial of health insurance. Took me a year to get my company to give me health coverage. They did the same thing to me, cut my hours every so often. I left that company, went to another. Its not really a great answer, but I got so fed up...so I just said f*** you and switched. I would rather have that ability to switch when I want to, have the choice.

[radopps]

its hard to argue with spending too much money when right now the Republican President is spending an obscene amount of money on a war...maybe that money could go into helping to reform Medicare and Medicaid...and Shini had it right...I said this to my family the other day...the US will not support universal healthcare because they are too greedy...they don't want to have less money to ensure their kids get free health care!!! and universal healthcare doesn't mean shitty doctors...it will actually help to ensure the doctors are doing a good job...you can't get paid if you aren't performing well...but Chronic it is really difficult to listen to your reasoning when all you ever do is rag on the other side...at least have some respect for the other side!

[ChroniC588]

its hard to argue with spending too much money when right now the Republican President is spending an obscene amount of money on a war...maybe that money could go into helping to reform Medicare and Medicaid...and Shini had it right...I said this to my family the other day...the US will not support universal healthcare because they are too greedy...they don't want to have less money to ensure their kids get free health care!!! and universal healthcare doesn't mean shitty doctors...it will actually help to ensure the doctors are doing a good job...you can't get paid if you aren't performing well...but Chronic it is really difficult to listen to your reasoning when all you ever do is rag on the other side...at least have some respect for the other side!

I'm sorry, but I have no respect for Dumbocrats. I am sorry about that, really...but I just hate them.

And yeah, MasterFunk is right...it does make me very biased towards anything they say or do. I admit that. I guess I should listen to those Dumbocrats to at least make a more informed opinion on how stupid they are.:wedgie:

[Altivec]

Keep it civil.

Dammit guys, laugh a bit will ya?! :eek9:

Thanks guys!

[MasterFunk]

Chronic, you're using the simple 'slippery slope' argument.

Of course I know all of those run-of-the-mill arguments. People always want to exploit every system. But thats why we have laws to put limits on such things. I say we put in place a rigorous type of system to determine whether people brought on their misfortune thru a choice of their own, or whether it couldn't be predicted, and limit the type of rewards that are provided.

These are the type of things that need to be fleshed out later through the system of checks and balances. Yes, I would hope the republicans would be able to cooperate in planning the healthcare system, and help to put limits on the coverage.
Thats where Obama differs from Clinton, as he put it clearly in the debate the other night. Hillary failed at trying to come up with universal healthcare before because she did not try to reach across the aisle and get republican help.
Obama is much more likely to be cooperative, and has even gained the support of many moderate republicans. Without directly stating it, Obama has made it clear that his healthcare plan is just a tentative write-up that will need to be later modified to best suit the needs of the country, with help from the republicans.

[ChroniC588]

I'll be good! dont lock the thread...:cry3:

[radopps]

i guess you are older than me so that can account for your hatred of Democrats...I am a registered Democrat and consider myself a fairly liberal thinker...however I will listen to a conservative argument on the basis of fact...that being said I still think that Obama is the best possible person that is out there...he seems like the only person that can actually get away from big business and make some changes!!!

[ChroniC588]

i guess you are older than me so that can account for your hatred of Democrats...I am a registered Democrat and consider myself a fairly liberal thinker...however I will listen to a conservative argument on the basis of fact...that being said I still think that Obama is the best possible person that is out there...he seems like the only person that can actually get away from big business and make some changes!!!

Ask him how about Rezko.:grin:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/124171,CST-NWS-obama05.article

All politicians at some point or another did something shady. Its part of politics, its not a clean game. They all gotta dip their hand into the cookie jar.

This is true for both Republicans and Democrats

I think its great anyone would sign up for any party...so thats cool. But I am doubtful Obama will be able to make any change. He is too radical and that makes him unbalanced. He hasnt had enough time to be more relaxed, and formulate his decisions. It shows sometimes in the comments he makes.

All we know is he is young, relatively untouched by the political nature of Washington that is so tainted and saturated in the other candidates.

But Washington has a way of doing things to people. Even the best of people. I would rather listen to someone whose gone through that whole ordeal already and came out on top, than someone who hasnt and is going to endure it at the same time trying to bring this country out of some of the worst doldrums on record.

He should have known better with Rezko. Obama is a smart man. But he is too young when it comes to the political game. And that game is not kind to newcomers...its downright brutal. He has to learn alot of those little nuances if he wants to really succeed.