RECON: Are you for or against it? If you had a chance to amend it, would you?

[ArchangelX]

Hello everyone,

I've been discussing RECON with a friend...someone who knows the ins and outs of it, and understands it, and I'm looking for some serious discussion on it. If someone were to push to amend it...would you give them support? Or do you think RECON is a valid and necessary evil that should just be left as is?

If there's enough support, there is a possibility that there could be a push to get next year's legislative session to took at it and possibly make some necessary changes to the recon laws.

What's your take on RECON?

[Udrivecrap]

:smoke: yo homez........ what's a "RECON" and what does it do? :read:

:dizintegrate:

[tomei>matt]

recon isnt really nessasary i used to do fake alignments for the civics that came in so they could go get recon. the people who do recon only look that the paper says good even if your camber says -6

[DGGM9D6SS]

Like the push for the ban on fireworks, recon is a necessary evil to keep the retards from driving around in unsafe cars. My one ammendment would be allow for roll cages, 5-point harnesses, and other SFI approved equipment so our "race" cars could also see more street time. Overall, I think it's OK. And personally, it beats the shit outta smog laws!!

[Latka]

Wasn't the safety inspection / recon thing implemented only so that the State could receive Federal money for the highways?

My problem with recon is the horror stories I've heard and the absolute crap I've read in the Inspector's Manual... like pushing on a fender and looking for visible deflection of the suspension. I'm sorry, but even my 1500lb Mini has a pretty stiff suspension. Who's to say that one inspector (say, 5'5" and 130lbs or so) could get the same deflection as inspector #2 (6'8 and 400lbs). Come on. "Visible deflection". That's just horeseshit.

The other one was hearing from a friend (second hand) that they jammed a broomstick up his exhuast pipe and decreed that there was no muffler or some crap like that.

...what is this, Kansas? Let's get some damn science in the loop here. If you want suspension movement, come up with a frickin VALUE and say that cars have to comply with it.

The inspection and recon program in the State of Hawaii is a joke - and isn't it different on every island?

[tomei>matt]

one more problem that i see with recon is that it only affects oahu if the rest of the state doesent need it why do we

[Latka]

The only reason I can see why is because we have all the people (and therefore most of the cars) on O'ahu. I'm kinda suprised Maui doesn't have it.

[ArchangelX]

Like the push for the ban on fireworks, recon is a necessary evil to keep the retards from driving around in unsafe cars. My one ammendment would be allow for roll cages, 5-point harnesses, and other SFI approved equipment so our "race" cars could also see more street time. Overall, I think it's OK. And personally, it beats the shit outta smog laws!!

But isn't that what Safety Check is for?

[zff]

An NSX won't pass recon even if it's stock. I know you don't need recon if your car is stock, but that means it's illegal to modify my car. That's just stupid.

[ArchangelX]

Which is why it probably needs to be amended...to make sense.

[zff]

I agree. It's a good law in concept, but the current implementation needs some serious revisiting.

[tomei>matt]

what i see as wrong is that even if you have it cop harrass you and can revoke it if they want

[DGGM9D6SS]

I agree it needs ammending... and yes, Mike, you're right. I just look at recon as an extended safety check for modified cars. That's all. I feel it's needed so people don't do unsafe things (like heating springs, etc) to their cars and risk all of our lives on the freeways. I also agree it should be state wide, not just for one island, regardless of population.

I did have to laugh at my one "recon" story. I got a safety check at a gas station in Palolo back around '95. The guy points to the stock 15x7 chrome wheels on my '93 Silverado and proclaims I need recon for those. I told him they were stock, and even if they weren't, they were 15s! I could go up or down 1.5 inches and I still wouldn't need recon on aftermarket wheels.

Half the problem is those who are "in charge" don't know the law that well themselves.

[ArchangelX]

Coming from the mainland, I just view recon as way to extraneous. I just don't view it as being essential. If it was, Cali would have it...Cali's import and modified scene absolutely dwarfs Oahu's...originally, recon was just meant to check or stolen parts...but for some reason, it's just blew up into this debacle you see now.

[REH]

I say let the tuner shops decide what's safe or not as far as modifying your car. They're the one's that know more about after market parts than anybody, plus they offer the services to order and install them. Just like how the safety check is done by certified shops and not the State. In Japan the federal government does the safety inspections. Last I checked it was around $1,500 once every 2 years . . . you wanna go that direction? They got it down though. 33 license plates for modified cars and you have to pay three times the tax . . . yeah, let's do it that way! j/k.

[tomei>matt]

how many states have recon arnt we like one of two or three. seems like its only a way to make extra money

[Sgt_Ox]

Yup just a way to make more money. Seriously if they wanted to pursue the intent of this law, they would've incorporated a madatory Fix-it type of ticket.

But it doesn't seem to be the case.

Refine the law or get rid of it.

And so I've read in another forum that it's all about Safety. Well Hawaii sure is all about safety, yup, since we have motorcycle riders who can ride freely without a helmet or the boys riding in back of a open bed pick up truck.

I'm mean if it's about safety then let's be consistent.

[Latka]

An NSX won't pass recon even if it's stock. I know you don't need recon if your car is stock, but that means it's illegal to modify my car. That's just stupid.

That's a perfect point! The front license plate on my mini is mounted in the stock position. I can scrape that mofo over almost anything - not to mention my headlights. In the stock position I think they're almost "illegal." It's a series of laws that I hope were introduced in the best of faith - it's the execution that fell flat on it's face. Unfortunately that execution phase is where Hawaii screws a lot of things up. :tear:

Oh...and I want a racetrack, dammit. :crazydriver:

[spike109u]

Your car has to be tested for safety if it's modified in Hawaii? That's just ridiculous. In New Jersey all cars have to pass the same test, whether they have been modified or not. Granted, we don't have a perfect system either, but it's a lot better than having different rules for modified cars. I think a standard should be decided on for all cars, rather than these ambiguous rules you've described. A corolla with a performance exhaust system isn't any less safe than one without.

[Devil Boy]

Safety check stations won't touch my truck with a ten foot pole. For those that have seen my truck, you know it is not that flashy or anything. Every year I have to go blackmarket and get a sticker.

I am dead set against Recon and think it should be completely eliminated. I don't need any government official telling me what I can and can't do to my truck. If we have to have an annual safety check, that alone should be enough to determine that my vehicle is safe enough to operate on the streets. "Horn, lights, brakes. That'll be $17. Thank you." That's all it should be.

...what is this, Kansas?
It wasn't your intent, but just FYI, Kansas has no annual safety check whatsoever and Missouri, although having an annual safety check, has no emissions check. I was just there last week and inquired. Gee, go figure. Some states in this country actually get by without it. I can't wait to move back home.

I will do my best to support whoever and whatever needs to be done to get rid of Recon.

[Latka]

LOL... the Kansas thing is funny. It was a snub at Kansas' anti-science approach to a lot of teaching that goes on there. I only mean that if we're going to have things like "visible suspension deflection" in the inspectors manual then they need to give testing proceedures.

I grew up in KC, MO and was quite pleased to leave the state. It's not a bad place, but it might as well be way south of the Mason-Dixon line!

I really hope that we can do something to at least get the lawmakers to look at the recon procedure. ...funny that I've seen more than a few HPD "personal" cars with the blue light on top that are missing a recon sticker. Hypocricy anyone? I hear they make it fresh every day!

Also - having lived in Southern California for a while, I watched the emissions regulations get tighter and tighter. I'm sure things have changed since I was there last, but I remember wanting to pull my hair out in the early 90s when my '85 CRX was branded a "gross polluter". At that point you had to do a LOT to get the damn thing smogged. Thankfully we have a constant ocean breeze, we live on an island, and all things considered don't have *that* many cars out here.

[Devil Boy]

I grew up in KC, MO and was quite pleased to leave the state. It's not a bad place, but it might as well be way south of the Mason-Dixon line!
Off-Topic: I remember you mentioning you were from around that area. I'm as white bread as you can get so I fit right in and I'm comfortable there. But Hawaii does have the most beautiful women compared to the midwest.

On-Topic: It would be interesting to see the difference between the ratio of the amount of accidents caused by improper modifications and just accidents in general in Hawaii and compare them to states where there is none or maybe a reduced safety check system.

I'd venture to say that states that have no safety check (Kansas & Tennesee are two that I know of off the top of my head) probably don't see anymore accidents per capita than we do because of bad modifications or unsafe vehicles.

[Latka]

KC isn't a *bad* area per-se, it's just not my cup 'o tea anymore. That being said, we could sell our house and buy a HUGE place back there. Hell, I'd probably get my own "Dallas" style Theme song to play every time I entered the gates. :) I tell ya what though, I don't miss raking leaves in the fall nor shoveling snow in the winter! It's funny to think that we used to put on a tank top and shorts when the temp got up into the 40s after the winter. :D

It would be interesting to find out why the Recon stuff first came about. I like to think that they had the best intentions for it, and I know the inspectors probably try to be fair, but man it's just such an ambiguous mess. The NSX was brought up as an example earlier. I think the older style Integras (the ones with the projector style headlights) were the same - if you touched them at all they were illegal. I think the headlights were lower than the law allowed right from stock!

Sheesh. I'm all for making sure that people aren't driving around in an unsafe vehicle, but just because Ricer Ricky has coilovers on his Civic Hatchback doesn't mean he's unsafe. The fact that he meets up with like-minded mouth breathers and races on the street makes him unsafe. I think that's what they're aiming for...and if that's the case, they've missed the mark.

[ArchangelX]

Ditto that. There's much more to this recon than most people know...like it's original scope.

[Devil Boy]

I did a little searching on traffic accident statistics. Sadly, Hawaii traffic statistics are not reported as referenced by this article (http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Apr/18/ln/ln03p.html). Since Kansas (http://www.ksdot.org/burtransplan/prodinfo/accstat/2005factsbook.pdf) & Missouri (http://www.modot.mo.gov/safety/documents/2005AccidentStatisticsManualChapter1_b.pdf) were mentioned and each have pretty comprehensive reports that can be found on the web, I looked up how many accidents were contributed to vehicle malfunctions for those states.

Kansas vehicular defects accidents were 781 out of 68,675 total accidents ( 0.01%) for year 2005.
Missouri vehicular defects accidents were 728 out of 69,865 total accidents ( 0.01%) for year 2005. *I had also found a seperate report on accidents that were caused by vehicle malfunctions and it stated that between 2000-2002, approximately 25% of the vehicle malfunction accidents were fatal.

I can't find Hawaii's statistics for 2005. I wanted to look up California's stats too, but couldn't pinpoint anything contributing to vehical malfunctions. Are Recon & Safety inspections really making us safer compared to states that don't have it?

[Udrivecrap]

wow! .......so that's what RECON is eh? :wtf:

well, i think it SUCKS!!!.... and i refuse to be a puppet to government bullsh*t. :D

[fugly]

down with recon....

with the high registration and taxes on gas. our roads should be flawless...not filled with potholes.

[ArchangelX]

Hmm...with all this stuff about recon...shouldn't they have statistics about how effective it is? :wtf:

[kilikopela]

it depends on the definitions.

are rules meant to be followed or broken? often, people that oppose recon are those who can't follow the standards of recon. whether it may be for better or worse...there will be people who want to do what they want to their car without being harassed for it.

I stand neutral on the recon topic - sorta. I dont think it should be required, though there are things that are worth checking in terms of chassis and suspension modification.

[Udrivecrap]

^^^ that makes sense.

[Sgt_Ox]

it depends on the definitions.

are rules meant to be followed or broken? often, people that oppose recon are those who can't follow the standards of recon. whether it may be for better or worse...there will be people who want to do what they want to their car without being harassed for it.

I stand neutral on the recon topic - sorta. I dont think it should be required, though there are things that are worth checking in terms of chassis and suspension modification.
Yeah it has it's quirks (sp?), but the general rule of the suspension has to have 2" of travel kinda gets me. I'm mean from what I used to hear all the inspectors did was push down on the vehicle themsleves. This may be old info but not quite sure if it's still in effect. If it is still used, sounds kinda fishy if you ask me. Haven't had to worry about Recon in about 10 years now.

So sorry if my info is old. Shit I remember when the inspector took a yard stick and shoved it in my muffler. Hence my impression of them as shady.

[ArchangelX]

Sounds shady to me... :wtf:

[sanmitch]

I think RECON should be something that the saftey inspectors have to be trained in, in order for them to get their license. Or atleast combining both into one. If you think about it, safety is the issue, even on reconstructed vehicles. So, it stands to reason that the "buck" should stop at the inspector. If the vehicle is deemed to be unsafe, then you are ****ed. No saftey for you.

[CrazyHawaiian]

I support the original intent of recon, like Mike said it was meant to document aftermarket parts, and if stuff was stolen, thats how they find out who bought the stolen parts. But these days its been morphed into a sudo safety check and I agree it needs to be revised. Like others have said, there is just too much of a greay area where things are left up to interpretation of whoever does the inspection. I've known people who passed one year, then went back the next year with the same exact mods and failed. Then went back one week later with nothing changed and passed. Its just too inconsistent to be considered effective in my opinion. So even though I support the original idea, I don't support the current implementation of recon. I also don't support the fact that they keep the money if they fail you. You should get credit to fix whatever and come back at least once for free (since you already paid). Even with this said, I do not get recon on any of my rides. And if I do get a no recon ticket I fight it in court and win every time. All you need to do is find someone with the same make/model/color car as you and swap your plates on their car for 1 minute to take a picture (then swap back) Make sure the picture is showing the date, then take that to court. Pretty sly .... as long as you dont drive your modded car to court ...

[Devil Boy]

... Even with this said, I do not get recon on any of my rides. And if I do get a no recon ticket I fight it in court and win every time. All you need to do is find someone with the same make/model/color car as you and swap your plates on their car for 1 minute to take a picture (then swap back) Make sure the picture is showing the date, then take that to court. Pretty sly .... as long as you dont drive your modded car to court ...
Haha That's awesome! I thought I was sneaky.

All this talk about recon reminds me that I have to get a hold of my contact to get my sticker for next month. doh! Safety check is due again.