Lawmaker says Marines killed Iraqis 'in cold blood'

[ArchangelX]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/05/18/murtha.marines/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A decorated Marine colonel turned anti-war congressman has said Marines killed at least 30 innocent Iraqi civilians "in cold blood" in Haditha in November, suggesting the death toll may be twice as high as originally reported.

Regardless of whether it's true or not...the commander is using it to further his own political agenda. What a shame...

[Kamakura kid]

Yeah, reading the paper yesterday, this murtafu#%er comes right and and says he hasn't read the report, just that someone told him. Pure grandstanding.

At least let the Marine Corps finish the investigation first! Sheesh...

[Latka]

Colonel Murtha is a highly respected former Marine, and a very respected representative as well. I would be inclined to believe what he says over many, many others.

Just because he's anti-war suddenly means that he's using things for his own political gain?

The US doesn't exactly have a sparkling record in Iraq. I think even the "flag wavers" would agree with that. Anyone remember a little place called Abu Ghraib?

[ArchangelX]

I agree with your opinion, Andy, but the fact is, there's not a completed investigation, and people are just hearing bits and pieces of the facts yet. If he's making these accusations without even reading the report, then that's even worse. To step out and make an accusation like that discredits the people that AREN'T involved in that situation, and discredits the ones that if and/or were but are innocent.

And it helps to incite even more trouble for our troops in a bad time. I can only see this as another way to escalate the violence against them right now. Can't you see that happening?

[Kamakura kid]

Colonel .

Just because he's anti-war suddenly means that he's using things for his own political gain?


Making a huge public spectacle w/o reading the report first is using things for political gain.

I never said anything one way or another about the Marines involved and their conduct. You will find out that most of us in (or formerly in) the military really hate it when a few folks mess things up for the rest of us. Those idiots not only sully the honor and reputation of the rest of us, but also make things exponentially harder. The backlash from this thing is going to be huge, many will pay the price in blood.

[Kamakura kid]

Colonel
The US doesn't exactly have a sparkling record in Iraq. I think even the "flag wavers" would agree with that. Anyone remember a little place called Abu Ghraib?

Yeah, I sure do. I also remember the only reason Abu Ghraib came into the public limelight was because THE MILITARY INITIATED an investigation.

[Sgt_Ox]

Most definitely for political gain. Let the investigation finish first.

[Sgt_Ox]

I agree with your opinion, Andy, but the fact is, there's not a completed investigation, and people are just hearing bits and pieces of the facts yet. If he's making these accusations without even reading the report, then that's even worse. To step out and make an accusation like that discredits the people that AREN'T involved in that situation, and discredits the ones that if and/or were but are innocent.

And it helps to incite even more trouble for our troops in a bad time. I can only see this as another way to escalate the violence against them right now. Can't you see that happening?

is it me or does this sound like a a very similar situation that's more closer to home for us. :whisper: Like in another foum in a galaxy far far away.

[ArchangelX]

No commento. :gapteeth:

[Latka]

Yeah, I sure do. I also remember the only reason Abu Ghraib came into the public limelight was because THE MILITARY INITIATED an investigation.

I believe it was news sources in one form or another, and not the US Military.

Our armed forces aren't exactly an open book...especially when it comes to EPOWs.

[Kamakura kid]

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Who_leaked_the_%27Taguba_Report%27 %3F

[Kamakura kid]

Sure you aren't thinking of the Marine accused of a execution style killing in a mosque? That was a network TV camera crew.

OK. I need to take a chill pill and relax. I think the good doctor prescribed Mirta...

[Sgt_Ox]

Sure you aren't thinking of the Marine accused of a execution style killing in a mosque? That was a network TV camera crew.

OK. I need to take a chill pill and relax. I think the good doctor prescribed Mirta...

bleh not this our side their side crap. Should I post up the links of all the beheadings? Both sides will never be honky-dory. The media needs something to pick on us about and that is what they have.

Maybe they should just make the journalist scan the area, and possibly run into a booby-trapped corpse.

[ArchangelX]

Journalists. Most of them are devious as hell.

[Latka]

Ox, my beef is that people seem to think the US is sparkly clean. We're not. There is a lot of bad shit going on over there - the Abu Ghraib prison stuff is just that which has been brought to our attention.

Do I think that our troops are, for the most part, doing the best that they can do? Yes. That doesn't mean that our shit doesn't stink though.

This is one of those things that it looks like we're all firmly opinionated on. As such, nobody is going to sway anyone on it. I think we should just drop it, as there's no real discussion going on... it's just back and forth, and it's only going to get less productive the longer it drags out.

:lock:

[Sgt_Ox]

Ox, my beef is that people seem to think the US is sparkly clean. We're not. There is a lot of bad shit going on over there - the Abu Ghraib prison stuff is just that which has been brought to our attention.

Do I think that our troops are, for the most part, doing the best that they can do? Yes. That doesn't mean that our shit doesn't stink though.

This is one of those things that it looks like we're all firmly opinionated on. As such, nobody is going to sway anyone on it. I think we should just drop it, as there's no real discussion going on... it's just back and forth, and it's only going to get less productive the longer it drags out.

:lock:

oh no it wasn't to incite a debate. I was agreeing that both sides have done things that are frowned upon. It's just that the media is so focused on things we do, they tend to contort it for their liberal gain.

As where I've seen numerous of beheading videos, and the assasinations of the local Iraqi people who volunteered for their own Army. But yet their fellow muslim brothers are killing them off as well. But there's no story in that, it's because controversy sells.

If you lay down the facts on the table, this is a very f*cked up situation.

Now whether you agree with the reasons why we're there or not is another story of debate.

Some of you expressed your concerns and your views about this war and it's completely understandable.

However let me tell you that reasons that you heard on TV was old information. So old that it was a Democrat in office at the time (as I can recall during my enlistement). But it's funny how the media portrays information.

[Kamakura kid]

I never argued about whether or not soliders did/didn't do something. In the case of AB prison, most of those idiots in charge were scum, basically. Come on, while our guys and gals are also over there risking their lives daily and in some cases paying the ultimate price, the AB idiots were screwing around (literally in the case of the one pregnant female and her supervisor/boyfriend) and making things much worse for their brothers and sisters in arms.

Not all of them were idiots, though. One of the whistle blowers was a Navy dog handler who refused to participate.

What gets me is this one politician jumping the gun and using an ongoing military investigation to further his own poitical agenda. Now that everything is going to be floodlit under a electron microscope, how good is that investigation going to be?

[Sgt_Ox]

I never argued about whether or not soliders did/didn't do something. In the case of AB prison, most of those idiots in charge were scum, basically. Come on, while our guys and gals are also over there risking their lives daily and in some cases paying the ultimate price, the AB idiots were screwing around (literally in the case of the one pregnant female and her supervisor/boyfriend) and making things much worse for their brothers and sisters in arms.

Not all of them were idiots, though. One of the whistle blowers was a Navy dog handler who refused to participate.

What gets me is this one politician jumping the gun and using an ongoing military investigation to further his own poitical agenda. Now that everything is going to be floodlit under a electron microscope, how good is that investigation going to be?
no shit! I agree on all points that you've made!

[Latka]

From CNN:

"Senior defense official says evidence in criminal probe of deaths of about two dozen Iraqi civilians points toward conclusion that U.S. Marines committed unprovoked murders, The Associated Press reports."

Sad. There's enough killing going on over there...do we really need people going out and doing this crap? :(

[ArchangelX]

Awwww...shiat. That's not gonna be good at all. Crap. STUPID IDIOTS!!! :furious:

[Sgt_Ox]

Awwww...shiat. That's not gonna be good at all. Crap. STUPID IDIOTS!!! :furious:

no sh*t!

[ArchangelX]

I swear...it's always a few idiots making it worse for everyone else. I hope the evidence is wrong...for our boys sake. It's gonna get even worse for us, if this turns out to be true. :(

[Latka]

"Senior members of Congress have been told to brace for the worst."

The frustrating thing is that it sounds like the US Marine Corps knew exactly what happened several days after the incident... *last year*.

This one is going to get ugly, and only further tarnish our reputation in the international community. We stomp around the world talking about how we're doing all this good and then shit like this comes up.

People may not agree with Congressman Murtha and his stance on things - but if he didn't bring this to the forefront it sounds like nothing would have been said publicly about it.

Haditha is going to be yet another stain on the US conscience. :(

[ArchangelX]

Damn. Damn. Damnit. :(

[Kamakura kid]

I can see the vultures circling already.

[Latka]

Jeez look at the rioting the other day in Afghanistan after a traffic accident. It seems like people are just looking for any excuse to start the ant-US chants and riots these days.

[ArchangelX]

Probably because they've been trained to do that since birth. :(

[ArchangelX]

More info on this case....this line in particular made me cringe... :(

“He had to carry that little girl’s body,” she said, “and her head was blown off and her brain splattered on his boots.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13065025/page/2/

[Latka]

Probably because they've been trained to do that since birth. :(

I don't know if I buy that one, Mike. What happend in Watts in the 60s and Long Beach a handfull of years ago?

I guess the thing that really upsets me is that it's going to make even more people hate the US. We can't go around the world making enemies forever just because we're the biggest thing on the block.

[Latka]

From CNN today:

"CAMP PENDLETON, California (AP) -- A Navy corpsman testified Friday that Marines in his patrol seized an Iraqi civilian from his home, threw him into a hole and put at least 10 bullets in his head and chest after growing frustrated in their search for an insurgent."

That's from the Haditha incident. ****in idiots giving the Marine Corps a bad name. The Sailor was in on it too!!!

[NasTee]

IF there is one thing ive learned about marines, it would be this;

Marines do, and only do exactly as they are told. Marines will either get the job done or die fighting. If you want to kill one insurgent, dont send in the marines its a waste of their time. If you want to wipe out all the insurgents out of the village you send in the marines. If you want to take back hostile territory you send in the marines. You dont send marines in to kiss babies or hand out flowers. Marines are killers, but they are not murderers.

[ArchangelX]

Gah...I don't even wanna talk about it...it's such a mess over there.