HAWAIITALKS!

**zerozero** · 07-09-2009, 09:44 AM

this is the chance that we needed to downsize the size of the State payroll.

The unions are not in the usual position of being able to demand anything. I say make some cuts - do the layoffs and write into the new contracts a 5 day sick leave, a 5 day vacation for new hires (with increases) and cut the Holidays for ALL state workers to something more reasonable like major fed holidays only. Less paid holidays and less abuse of sick leave and vacation time will leave more time to actually work, which means we need less people on the payroll.

common sense - but again if there were any good business people in the state - they would leave and go private where they could make more money. The state is mostly the people who wanted the easy route or couldn't hack it in the "real" world.

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KenTwo · 07-10-2009, 10:11 AM

Cut down the State's size. BUT when the economy gets better, the remaining workers get good sized raises.

twowheels · 07-15-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posrx7

My thoughts posted at FH

heh, a while back I was wondering why the unions all filed their cases separately and on separate days. Now I know why.... They all got assigned different judges, so they picked the most liberal, socialist judge that they could that would be sympathetic to their cause.

Smart move used to win, but I hope they all choke on their own bullshit. The more this shit drags on, the more the general public's opinion will turn against them.

---------------

If they really wanted to show that they're the "better man" than dingle, they'd have accepted the paycut, but reject the furlough. Basically making a similar sacrifice in salary that the rest of Hawaii is making, and working hard to avoid any disruptions of services. Then when bargaining comes around again, and perhaps the economy recovers, they will be in a significantly stronger position, both with the gov., legislatures, and the general public. It would be suicide NOT to reverse the paycut.

Of course, the state workers & unions are still in "entitlement mentality". Some things never change. I really hope they all get FUXXED, the unions, the union workers, everyone. Some good workers might get taken out, but FUK EM. The general public is tired of this bullshit. Disruption of services? Education suffers? FUK IT, ALL BURN IN HELL....

As a civil service worker, I have no choice but to wish you exactly the same.

I'm with you about the unions, I wish they would all dissolve and make the state/county a more productive working force.

centralharbor · 07-15-2009, 11:38 PM

According to this article, "The plan, which trims a total of $227 million from the $1.8 billion school system budget, includes a 5 percent across-the-board cut to school-level programs, a reduction of part-time workers and slashing of school-level funding."

Does this mean that teachers will get a 5% pay cut (as in are we considered part of "school level programs")?

Hawaii school board approves $227M in cuts, including salaries | HonoluluAdvertiser.com | The Honolulu Advertiser

Rob · 07-16-2009, 01:59 AM

The GOV was "telling" the State Workers in her control that she would do this, and that, and whatever, none of which were legal. 15K workers @ 3 furlough days per month for 2 years = 72 days x 15K without staffing at positions.

Now, when you look at the considerations the public worker unions have: 45K employees at 1 day a month furlough for 2 years... 24 days for each employee. This includes the counties as well as the State.

It effects take home pay (non-inclusive of OT, Holidays, etc. as negotiated by contract) and time accrued on the job unless negotiated otherwise in the contract renewal.

This still doesnt take into consideration those positions already cut by attrition over the last 20 years as the city and state were scaling back the size of gov't.

I'll take my 24 days as soon as they make it public. I'll pay health care out of pocket for the month + and be done with it. Free time off.... hell, it'd only mean 2 days of sick and 2 days of Vacation lost.

**kombi731** · 07-16-2009, 09:34 AM

^^ he gets it

yeah buddy

but I think some layoffs will still have to happen
our gov is just to damned esspensive

Rob · 07-16-2009, 12:46 PM

Something else for all of you media readers:

The GOV has repeatedly tried to play your sympathies while she should have been negotiating with the unions MONTHS before this happened.

Failure to negotiate or attempt to negotiate stalls BOTH sides. Fortunately, the unions had the foresight to plan for this and had ideas on the table. The County Mayors also knew they needed to get involved as Lingle would not.

posrx7 · 07-16-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twowheels

As a civil service worker, I have no choice but to wish you exactly the same.

I'm with you about the unions, I wish they would all dissolve and make the state/county a more productive working force.

To be honest, it's just a rant, and what I think doesn't matter at all. What is likely to happen is:

- slight reduction in pay for state workers for a couple years
- shortfall made up with increased taxes
- no change to the unions
- no change to the legislature mentality
- in 2010, we get a democrat governor to go with the democrat "supermajority" in the legislature. And no asshole like Dongle to get in the way of the back scratching.

**zerozero** · 07-16-2009, 07:33 PM

I say bust the unions

their only function is to protect those who shouldn't have the job anyway.

privatize everything possible and like private business - let only the strong survive

The unions are stealing MY tax dollars for employment welfare and funding the biggest jack asses in the state - the union leaders.

I am sick of being held hostage by a bunch of thieves everytime negotiations are up.

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KenTwo · 07-16-2009, 09:22 PM

A non-unionized system as large as the State would be doomed to failure. There are 45K+ workers in the system and privatization would just make it worse. The unions sole power comes from people. They don't have the power to make laws. They rely on the voting influence of the public. And as it is evident from the polls, their needs carry a ton of weight. So while people complain about the unions, they aren't changing any time soon. Just face it, majority of the population here either is in a union, has a relationship to someone in a union, or supports a union.

**xurusaibobx** · 07-16-2009, 10:28 PM

unions always think they have the strong arm

furloughs are always better then layoffs.

a job is better then no job at all

its not a good time to lose your job! i know so many people who dont have a job right now due to layoffs and they are highly educated.

i think the workers them self need to step up to their unions and tell them what THEY WANT!! or else those union reps are just going fock everything up

i know a few state workers, a lot of them would take furloughs over layoffs. but the unions want the gov to raise taxes! come on everyone is suffering right now! once again they only thing about their self. oh just raise tax and i keep my job my same pay ... it wont hurt me...

but everyone else who not effected will suffer even more! just people some people didnt want to bargin and always wanted more...

different union - they took my money ive never had support from them... only crap i got was thanks sorry about losing your job... but heck we send u free news letters... oh yah thanks for paying your dues every month to pay someone else...
i agree unions only protect those who shouldnt have a job cause those are the lazy basters at the top of the list anyways they know the lower ranks we get cut first anyways

twowheels · 07-16-2009, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posrx7

To be honest, it's just a rant, and what I think doesn't matter at all. What is likely to happen is:

- slight reduction in pay for state workers for a couple years
- shortfall made up with increased taxes
- no change to the unions
- no change to the legislature mentality
- in 2010, we get a democrat governor to go with the democrat "supermajority" in the legislature. And no asshole like Dongle to get in the way of the back scratching.

I know it's just a rant, no harm no foul man. The democrat supermajority on the legislature is what has the state all fukked up. Fire them all!

twowheels · 07-16-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerozero

I say bust the unions

their only function is to protect those who shouldn't have the job anyway.

privatize everything possible and like private business - let only the strong survive

The unions are stealing MY tax dollars for employment welfare and funding the biggest jack asses in the state - the union leaders.

I am sick of being held hostage by a bunch of thieves everytime negotiations are up.

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Couldn't agree more. I know that I don't need UPW to keep my job, and I could certainly save my 75 bucks a month!

posrx7 · 07-17-2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by posrx7

If they really wanted to show that they're the "better man" than dingle, they'd have accepted the paycut, but reject the furlough. Basically making a similar sacrifice in salary that the rest of Hawaii is making, and working hard to avoid any disruptions of services. Then when bargaining comes around again, and perhaps the economy recovers, they will be in a significantly stronger position, both with the gov., legislatures, and the general public. It would be suicide NOT to reverse the paycut.

Interesting... Dongle, her cabinet, and all the "R" lawmakers doing exactly what I suggested that the state workers do to improve their position. As to be expected, Hanabusa is bucking against it.

Quote:

lingle's new executive order applies to 42 executive branch officials, including lt. Gov. James "duke" aiona, her department directors and top administrators. the governor said it is likely they all would still come to work on furlough days even though they would not be paid.

"knowing the people in this room," she said of the cabinet members who joined her for the announcement, "it will not reduce the services to the people of hawai'i at all. They won't notice it. Our directors work every day of the week, i know because i'm in e-mail communication with them every day at all times of the day or night."
...........
State house minority leader lynn finnegan, r-32nd (lower pearlridge, 'aiea, halawa), said the six house republicans have agreed to take a voluntary pay cut equivalent to the two furlough days. She urged house and senate democrats to do the same.
.......................
State senate president colleen hanabusa, d-21st (nanakuli, makaha), cited the constitutional restriction earlier this year after critics urged the legislature to give up a 36 percent pay raise that took effect in january.

Hanabusa, in an opinion column in the advertiser, said the constitution requires the legislature to either accept or reject the salary commission's recommendation in its entirety. She explained that lawmakers could not give up their raise without affecting raises over the past two years for the governor and other top executive and judicial branch officials.

"we cannot accept the salaries for some positions and reject others, or approve the raises for only some of the years provided for in the recommendation," hanabusa wrote.

Rob · 07-17-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerozero

I say bust the unions

their only function is to protect those who shouldn't have the job anyway.

privatize everything possible and like private business - let only the strong survive

The unions are stealing MY tax dollars for employment welfare and funding the biggest jack asses in the state - the union leaders.

I am sick of being held hostage by a bunch of thieves everytime negotiations are up.

#00

So Fred, I dont see you ranting off on shipping companies like this?

Rob · 07-17-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twowheels

Couldn't agree more. I know that I don't need UPW to keep my job, and I could certainly save my 75 bucks a month!

None of us need the union, and talk of privatization has stormed through our Division several times in the past...

I welcome it. I'm just saying that they process has been built and fortified to protect those already there.

I'd much rather have my dues go in my pocket too!

**kombi731** · 07-18-2009, 03:29 PM

here come the layooofs!!!

So what's with all these people saying the layoffs are illegal??
like um go ahead and post the law # when you say that, or better yet take whoever you see fit to court over it.

LOL @ the whine
you knew it was coming

**zerozero** · 07-18-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenTwo

A non-unionized system as large as the State would be doomed to failure. There are 45K+ workers in the system and privatization would just make it worse. The unions sole power comes from people. They don't have the power to make laws. They rely on the voting influence of the public. And as it is evident from the polls, their needs carry a ton of weight. So while people complain about the unions, they aren't changing any time soon. Just face it, majority of the population here either is in a union, has a relationship to someone in a union, or supports a union.

sorry - you cannot convince me

There are many well run companies in the US with more employees than the entire state and all the counties - so the "dommed to fail" arguement is BS - brainwashed by the union bullshit. In fact the public unions in Hawaii are already failing to provide services at an acceptable level for the amount of resources they consume. Private business could do a better job - if not they could be fired and replaced.

AND - there are more people in Hawaii that are employed by private business that all the unions combined.

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**zerozero** · 07-18-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob

So Fred, I dont see you ranting off on shipping companies like this?

trust me - they get their share as well.

a f*cking forklift driver making $90k a year????? WTF kinda bullsh*t is THAT?

There Rob you feel better now - want a cookie? Maybe they can raise our taxes to pay for THAT too. I wonder how much that cookie would cost since it would have to be a union cookie. It would have to be designed by a union chef, approved by the union president. Then it would get rejected because they wanted 15 chocolate chips per cookie because the LAST contract had 14 in it. Once it was approved - the ingredients would have to be ordered from a dustributor who's employees are unionized then delivered by a union trucker to a union bakery. Then once they are baked, individually packaged in the "GO UNION" cello wrappers they get passed out to all the union employees (that are current with their dues) by more union workers who are no doubt on the clock, using my tax dollars, and should be doing the jobs they were hired for.

All this extra cost gets absorbed by the government and now that free UNION cookie is now $14 each.

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**zerozero** · 07-18-2009, 05:50 PM

Any one here who is afraid of privatization of union jobs is either brainwashed or a slacker. If you are a worthy employee you are worthy to a private employer just as much as in the union maybe more so.

To think that a private tree trimmer, auto repair shop, welding shop or plummer is not going to be able to do the job the union does is pure fantasy. I would put my money on them doing it both cheaper and better and with less people.

Yesterday there were 3 trucks all lined up in Kailua fixing pot holes - the first truck had 2 guys in the front seats (couldn't see if anyone was in the back seats) the second truck had the asphalt and another driver and 2 guys behind it fixing the pot holes and the last truck had 2 more guys sitting in the front seat - 7 guys that I could see - 3 were doing something. A private company would have had 3 or 4 tops.

The city empties trash cans at the bus stops:

one pickup with 2 guys in the front seat

one flatbed dump truck - driver and 2 guys grabbing the trash

one more pick up with one guy in it sitting there doing nothing

How many guys does it take to do the same job in private business? 1 or 2 and one truck.

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**zerozero** · 07-19-2009, 09:04 AM

Today's paper -

"State government workers, on the other hand, have largely been given a pass. Until now.

Since peaking in December 2007, Hawai'i's economy has lost about 32,300 jobs — a 5 percent slide — with almost all of it coming out of the private sector.

In the same period, the state government has added about 2,300 jobs, according to state employment data.

But if history is any guide, it's only a matter of time until state workers begin to feel the pinch of the current recession.

"Clearly, there has been a disconnect over the last year where state jobs have continued to go up while private-sector payrolls were shrinking," said University of Hawai'i economist Byron Gangnes.

Now it's their turn - the unions "SAY" they only want what is fair - what they say is for PR - it's not what they really want.

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